In this episode of Beyond the Systems, I interview Josh Haynam, co-founder and CEO of Try Interact, a platform for creating quizzes. We explore how quizzes have evolved from simple personality tests to powerful tools for meaningful customer engagement. Josh shares how the quiz landscape dramatically shifted in 2024, moving away from viral "what shrimp are you?" style quizzes to more intentional, value-driven experiences that help solve specific problems.

Some key moments from the episode:

"Things change slowly and then all at once" - Josh perfectly captures how quiz marketing transformed in 2024. The days of 5-question viral Buzzfeed-style quizzes are over. Today's successful quizzes create personalized journeys through your content and expertise.

Josh breaks down an excellent example of a modern quiz - an English language assessment with 13 thoughtfully crafted questions that demonstrates the creator's expertise while mapping to specific pain points. Each result delivers a customized content journey addressing the quiz-taker's exact needs.

When asked whether quiz creators should focus on being positive/affirming or pointing out what's wrong, Josh reveals that in 2025, people overwhelmingly want quizzes to identify their problems first. As he notes, "If you don't start by acknowledging that something is off, I'm not going to listen to you."

The conversation dives deep into the psychology of asking questions and why many businesses overcomplicate quiz creation instead of simply recreating their most helpful customer conversations.

For business owners considering adding quizzes to their marketing mix, Josh emphasizes that successful quizzes sit at the intersection of three elements: a compelling topic (like personality or spirituality), personal relevance to the individual taking it, and a clear connection to your business offerings.

Together we discuss the rise of branching logic quizzes - while they require more backend work (sometimes mapping out 128 different possible outcomes!), they deliver an almost magical experience where just 4-5 targeted questions can lead to pinpoint accurate results.

As Josh shares, nothing beats personal conversations for conversion rates. Only turn to automation tools like quizzes when you've had enough customer interactions to truly understand the journey.

This episode is perfect for business owners looking to understand how quizzes can create meaningful connections with their audience while delivering real value. Josh's conversation provides both strategic insights and practical tips for creating quizzes that resonate in 2025's more intentional digital landscape.

• Resources from this episode: TryInteract: https://get.tryinteract.com/systemswithsam if you sign up free you can get a free quiz strategy call
• More about Josh Haynam: The co-founder and CEO at Interact, a software for creating list building quizzes. Since co-founding the company in 2013, Josh has worked with the world's leading brands on quizzes ranging across every industry and use-case imaginable.

• Connect with Josh Haynam:
• Website: http://tryinteract.com
• Instagram: instagram.com/tryinteract
• LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jhaynam

• Connect with Sam:
• Website: https://www.systemswithsam.com/services
• Instagram:

Episode Description: In this episode of Beyond the Systems podcast, I dive deep into Standard Operating Procedures (SOPs) – the secret weapon for scaling your business and building an efficient team. Learn how to create SOPs that actually work, eliminate constant team communication bottlenecks, and set your team up for success.

Key Takeaways:

• SOPs are not boring – they're your business's operational lifeline
• Reduce team communication back-and-forth by creating clear, detailed procedures
• Use tools like Loom and AI to streamline SOP creation
• Be extremely specific in your documentation to prevent team questions

Resources from this episode:

• Loom (screen recording tool)
• Claude AI or ChatGPT (for SOP drafting)
• SOP Template (available through Systems to Scale Audit)

Surprising Insights:

• Team building is one of the hardest challenges in online business
• Most entrepreneurs have never been formally trained in team management
• SOPs can transform your team's efficiency and your stress levels

Recommended Next Steps:

• Start documenting your core business processes
• Use screen recordings to capture exact workflow steps
• Create detailed, specific instructions for each procedure

Connect with Sam:

• Website: https://www.systemswithsam.com/services
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/systemswithsam/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samwhiz/

Want to Go Deeper? I offer a Systems to Scale Audit where I help you map out core business systems and identify exactly where you need SOPs. Limited spots available, click here to learn more.

Beyond the Systems - Episode 63: From Scuba Instructor to Lead Gen Expert: Mills Gray's Journey to Helping Service Providers Thrive

Want to level up your lead generation game without feeling sleazy or overwhelmed? In this episode, I sat down with Mills Gray, a business coach with 16+ years of experience who helps service providers create stacked offer strategies and attract their dream clients.

After running a painting holiday company (think luxury art retreats) and diving deep into marketing, Mills found her sweet spot helping service providers and practitioners get visible and grow their businesses. And let me tell you – her approach is refreshingly practical.

Key takeaways from our chat:

• Why splitting your week into thirds (lead gen, selling, serving) is crucial for avoiding the feast-or-famine cycle
• The power of collaborations for organic growth (and why they beat posting 3x/week on Instagram)
• How to create lead magnets that actually work (spoiler: it's not about making 40-page ebooks)
• Why your cold audience needs different content than your warm audience
• Real talk about systems and automation (and why Mills is "marrying" Claude AI)

Mills dropped some truth bombs about why service providers often resist change (even when they're burning out) and shared her surprisingly simple approach to content creation and repurposing.

Listen in for practical strategies you can implement today to grow your business without working 40+ hours a week serving clients. Plus, Mills shares her secret weapon for creating hooks that actually stop the scroll (because apparently not everyone wants our freebies... who knew?).

Find Mills on Instagram @mills_gray and check out her podcast "Soul Leaders" for weekly 10-15 minute marketing tips.

And hey – if you're struggling with systems and automation like Mills admits to (hello, abandoned ClickUp account), let's chat! I help service providers streamline their businesses so they can focus on what they do best.

Resources from this episode:

https://millsgray.kartra.com/page/minimind

More about Mills Gray:

Mills has been a business owner for over 16 years. A coach and mentor focusing on helping service providers create a stacked offer strategy, attract dreamy af clients and step into their ceo era. A retreat host, podcast host and all round cheerleader:

A mum of two teens, two naughty dogs and lover of cold water swimming.

Connect with Mills Gray:

• Website: http://www.millsgray.com
• Instagram: @mills_gray

Connect with Sam:

• Website: https://www.systemswithsam.com/services
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/systemswithsam/ ​​
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samwhiz/