Jess talks with Rachel Bloom, Emmy and Golden Globe winner, and the star and creator of the hit show Crazy Ex-Girlfriend. After Rachel’s recent breast reduction surgery and the media’s (false) portrayal of it, they discuss how media tropes and stereotypes can force women into boxes about how they feel about themselves.

Jess and Rachel reflect on the new culture of “tweakments,” and the evolving understanding that body modifications like plastic surgery can be empowering in some situations, or the result of falling victim to a culture of unattainable beauty ideals in others. The trick is to know the difference. Rachel shares with us how she thought it out for herself.

After her convo with Rachel, Jess speaks with Nadia Craddock, a body image researcher (PhD) at the Centre for Appearance Research, who explains where our ideals and dominant stories about beauty come from. Nadia is skeptical that plastic or cosmetic surgery can ever be “empowering,” except in rare circumstances. She reminds us that there are powerful commercial forces who like to take advantage of the latest beauty trends, and she warns that the warm and fuzzy feelings that come after a cosmetic operation may not last.

Find Rachel @racheldoesstuff on Instagram. You can find Rachel’s new book (also in audio form), I Want To Be Where The Normal People Are, on her website racheldoesstuff.com.

You can follow Nadia @nadia.craddock on Instagram and @Nadia_Craddock on Twitter. She’s also a co-host on two podcasts of her own, The Body Protest and Appearance Matters: The Podcast.

If you’d like some tips for navigating appearance pressures and building body confidence with a young person in your life, please visit Dove.com/selfesteem.

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