Join Anna Stokke in conversation with Dr. Sarah Powell, a leading expert in teaching students with math difficulties. They discuss the shortcomings of a recent joint position statement by the National Council of Teachers of Mathematics (NCTM) and the Council for Exceptional Children (CEC) on teaching math to students with disabilities.

Sarah critiques the statement’s failure to include critical evidence-based practices, such as explicit instruction, and its reliance on vague or unsupported recommendations. She highlights research-backed strategies that can truly help students struggling with math, emphasizing the ethical responsibility of educators, policymakers, and advocates to ensure effective math instruction. Sarah also co-authored a response to the position statement.

Note: The resource page for this episode contains a link to the NCTM/CEC position statement, Sarah’s group’s response, and other articles mentioned in the episode: annastokke.com/ep-41-resources

TIMESTAMPS 00:00 Introduction 05:06 Understanding math disabilities 08:19 The NCTM/CEC position statement 17:06 Does growth mindset help math outcomes? 17:53 Is UDL evidence based? 21:57 Evidence-based practices for teaching math 29:07 The omission of explicit instruction 30:55 Why explicit instruction is important 35:51 The IES practice guide 38:50 Consequences of poor instruction 41:44 The Influence of NCTM and CEC 43:26 Recommendations for effective math instruction 49:43 Preventing math difficulties 56:02 Final thoughts RELEVANT PREVIOUS EPISODES

Ep 29 Math fact crisis: Strategies for improving numeracy with Brian Poncy https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-u9y84-165d773

Ep 30 Math Fluency matters with Brian Poncy https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-pj6z6-166741e

Ep 25 Understanding math reform ideology with Tom Loveless https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-7ih4c-15dbf9a

Ep 21 The right to learn math with Daniel Ansari https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-4nv9n-1527568

Ep 3 The Science of Math with Amanda VanDerHeyden https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-bksbz-13c732d

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

https://www.annastokke.com/ep-41-transcript

EPISODE RESOURCES

https://www.annastokke.com/ep-41-resources

MUSIC

Intro and Outro: Coma Media – Catch it Blue Dot Sessions – Thannoid, Tarte Tatin, Cornicob, Momentary Ease Podington Bear – Proliferate

Website: www.annastokke.com

X: @rastokke

LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/anna-stokke-3a1b4c

Bluesky: @rastokke.bsky.social

In this episode, Anna Stokke welcomes Dr. Therese Markow, Professor Emeritus at the University of California, San Diego, and host of the Critically Speaking podcast. They discuss the critical intersection of math and science education.

Therese shares her firsthand experiences as a geneticist and post-secondary educator, highlighting the alarming decline in basic numeracy among students and its impact on their success in fields like biology and genetics. The conversation covers fascinating studies linking math experience to logical reasoning and brain development. Therese tackles the question of whether math skills have a genetic component.

They also discuss societal and educational implications of weak math skills, including how some popular teaching philosophies might be failing students. Whether you're an educator, a math or science enthusiast scientist, or simply passionate about improving education, this episode offers something for everyone.

NOTE: The resource page contains research articles mentioned in the episode: annastokke.com/ep-40-resources

TIMESTAMPS

00:00 Introduction

03:24 Math skills in science students

11:25 Impact on university curriculum standards

19:36 Links between math and logic skills

28:03 Are math abilities genetic?

28:40 Heritability studies: Twins and math abilities

38:06 Effective math teaching influences math ability

41:27 Gender and math: Debunking myths

42:48 Personal stories about math interest

50:56 Importance of basic math skills in life

52:58 Conclusion and final Thoughts

RELEVANT PREVIOUS EPISODES

Ep 2. Evidence-based teaching strategies with Paul Kirschner https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-zgw6i-13b33df

Ep 16. Applying cognitive science to education with Daniel Willingham https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-szugf-149dff1

Ep 22. Mindsets and educational misconceptions with Carl Hendrick https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-78zv9-15493b1

Ep 35. Preparation for university math with Darja Barr and Dan Wolczuk https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-b8ssx-171a631

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

https://www.annastokke.com/ep-40-transcript

EPISODE RESOURCES

https://www.annastokke.com/ep-40-resources

MUSIC

Intro and Outro: Coma Media – Catch it Blue Dot Sessions – Balti, Cases to Rest Podington Bear – No Squirrel Commotion, Kitten

Website: www.annastokke.com

X: @rastokke

LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/anna-stokke-3a1b4c

Bluesky: @rastokke.bsky.social

Join Anna Stokke in conversation with Dr. Marcy Stein, professor emeritus from the University of Washington, Tacoma, about her firsthand experience with Direct Instruction (DI) and Project Follow Through—the world’s largest educational experiment. Despite showing DI’s effectiveness with at-risk students, the results were largely ignored.

Marcy shares insights into the origins of DI, its instructional design, and emphasizes that it’s effective for all students, not just those struggling academically. She also addresses common misconceptions, walks through a typical DI math lesson, and gives advice on how to bridge skill gaps in the classroom. This episode unpacks the story of Project Follow Through and the ongoing fight for evidence-based education.

NOTE: The resource page contains resources and research articles mentioned in the episode: annastokke.com/ep-39-resources

TIMESTAMPS

[00:00:00] Introduction [00:03:52] Marcy Stein’s background [00:07:11] Origins of Direct Instruction [00:11:26] Overview of Project Follow Through [00:14:40] Instructional models and results of Project Follow Through [00:23:30] What makes DI effective? [00:25:12] Why were the results of PFT ignored? [00:29:28] Difference between DI and di [00:31:52] Instructional design in DI [00:37:50] Pitfalls of multiple strategies [00:42:55] Understanding instructional delivery in DI [00:45:51] Managing varying abilities in the classroom [00:48:28] Addressing prerequisite skills in older students [00:52:40] Spiral vs. strand curriculum [00:55:12] A typical DI math lesson structure [00:59:34] List of DI math programs [01:01:17] Common misconceptions about DI [01:05:03] Challenges and resistance to DI [01:09:02] Role of leaders and faculty in DI implementation [01:13:51] Final thoughts

RELEVANT PREVIOUS EPISODES

Ep 34 Transforming education through behaviour science with Kimberly Berens https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-9tfz7-16f2e02

Ep 31 Exploring evidence for equitable education with Nidhi Sachdeva and Jim Hewitt https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-fjdnt-1685615

Ep 20 Reading and math: Parallels and pitfalls with Matthew Burns https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-8aj3f-1508af6

Ep 10 Maximizing learning through explicit instruction with Zach Groshell https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-px8h6-1443528

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

https://www.annastokke.com/ep-39-transcript

EPISODE RESOURCES

https://www.annastokke.com/ep-39-resources

MUSIC

Intro and Outro: Coma Media – Catch it Blue Dot Sessions –Tall Harvey, Little Poder, Momentary Ease, Betty Dear Podington Bear – Camp, Kitten

Website: www.annastokke.com

X: @rastokke

LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/anna-stokke-3a1b4c

Bluesky: @rastokke.bsky.social