Eddie Fishman is a senior research scholar at Columbia University’s Center on Global Energy Policy, adjunct professor of International & Public Affairs, and author of Choke Points: How the Global Economy Became a Weapon of War. A former U.S. State Department strategist, he served on the Secretary of State’s Policy Planning Staff and Foreign Affairs Policy Board, and led Russia/Europe sanctions policy—bringing a rare, in-the-room perspective to how economic power really works.

In this conversation, we trace how “choke points”—where one nation dominates and substitutes are scarce—have turned minerals, microchips, and money flows into the quiet weapons of great-power rivalry. Eddie unpacks the geo-economic “impossible trinity”—why you can’t maximize interdependence, economic security, and geopolitical calm all at once—and what that trade-off means for leaders making bets on AI, batteries, and supply chains.

Whether you’re steering strategy, procurement, or policy, this episode will change how you spot fragile dependencies, anticipate where pressure will build next, and engage policymakers before the rules harden around you.

In this episode we cover:

• Why a true “choke point” = dominance plus low substitutability
• The geo-economic impossible trinity and its implications for business strategy
• Where the next choke points may emerge: AI compute, batteries/EVs, and the energy transition
• The firm’s role: don’t just adapt to policy—shape it (how to engage upstream, practically)
• Industrial policy realities: U.S. moves on rare earths and semis—benefits, risks, and tolerance for failure

Episode Timeline:

00:00 – Cold open: rare earths and leverage

02:00 – Guest introduction and Eddie’s background

05:45 - Strategy as “winning tomorrow,” not just today

07:02 - Defining choke points (dominance + substitution)

11:20 - The “impossible trinity” explained with historical arcs

27:05 - Should firms adapt or shape policy?

30:05 - Emerging choke points: AI chips, batteries, EVs

38:05 - U.S. industrial policy (MP Materials, Intel) and what comes next

Additional Resources:

Book: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/726149/chokepoints-by-edward-fishman/

X (Twitter): https://x.com/edwardfishman?lang=en

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/edward-fishman

Thank you to our guest, our executive producer Zach Ness, our editor James Pearce, and the Outthinker team. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.

Follow us at outthinkernetworks.com/podcast

Today we’re welcoming back our first-ever guest on the Outthinker Podcast, Scott Anthony—Senior Lecturer at Dartmouth’s Tuck School of Business and one of the world’s leading voices on innovation and transformation. Formerly a senior partner at Innosight, the consultancy founded by Clayton Christensen, Scott has spent decades helping global organizations navigate disruption, build strategic resilience, and create new engines of growth. He’s also the author of eight acclaimed books, including The First Mile, Dual Transformation, and his newest work, Epic Disruptions: 11 Innovations That Shaped Our Modern World.

In this discussion, we uncover how disruption has driven human progress for centuries—long before the dawn of Silicon Valley. From the cannon fire that toppled ancient empires to the printing press that democratized knowledge, Scott shows that the forces behind disruption are anything but new. Through stories spanning from gunpowder to generative AI, he reveals how these enduring patterns continue to reshape industries, technologies, and societies today.

Listeners will walk away with a richer understanding of how to spot and harness disruption rather than fear it. Scott explains how leaders can use history as a practical playbook—learning to make bold, informed decisions in fast‑changing environments. Whether you’re scaling a business or steering an enterprise through transformation, this is a conversation about seeing beyond the moment to shape what comes next.

In this episode we cover:

• What Clayton Christensen really meant by “disruptive innovation”
• Why the term is so often misused—and how to tell sustaining vs disruptive innovation apart
• The “ghosts” that haunt incumbents: past trauma, rigid habits, and identity fears that block change
• What leaders can learn from the printing press, steel mini mills, and the iPhone
• How to use history as a lens for seeing disruption before it strikes

Episode Timeline:

00:00 — Highlight from today’s episode
01:10 — Introducing Scott Anthony and today’s topic
04:00 — From consulting to academia: finding no “safe spaces” in the era of AI
09:00 — Defining strategy: “a set of choices to achieve a designed aim”
10:00 — Setting the record straight on Clayton Christensen’s theory
16:30 — Bethlehem Steel, emotional ghosts, and leadership through disruption
21:00 — From gunpowder to AI: how patterns keep repeating
25:00 — The printing press and the unintended consequences of innovation
30:00 — The hero’s journey of innovation—from Julia Child to Steve Jobs
37:00 — Spotting modern disruptors: AI, robotics, and additive manufacturing
41:00 — Where to learn more from Scott Anthony

Additional Resources:

Book Website: https://www.epicdisruptions.com
Scott Anthony’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/scottdanthony/

Thank you to our guest, our executive producer Zach Ness, our editor James Pearce, and the Outthinker team. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.

Follow us at outthinkernetworks.com/podcast

Adam Brotman is the former Chief Digital Officer of Starbucks and Co-CEO of J.Crew, and co‑author of the e‑book AI‑First: The Playbook for a Future‑Proof Business and Brand. At Starbucks, he helped create one of the most admired digital customer experiences in the world and was named Chief Digital Officer of the Year. Today, as co‑founder of Forum3, Adam helps executives navigate the next era of business transformation—one where AI is no longer optional, but foundational.

Over the past two years, Adam has interviewed some of the most influential voices shaping artificial intelligence—Bill Gates, Sam Altman, Reid Hoffman, and Ethan Mollick, among others. Through those conversations, he’s uncovered what separates companies that simply experiment with AI from those that truly transform.

In this episode, we unpack what it really means to become an AI‑first leader—someone who doesn’t need to code or build models, but who develops the instinct and conviction to guide their teams into this new frontier.

In this episode we cover:

• What it means to be an AI‑first CEO and why it starts with an authentic “aha moment.”
• Bill Gates’ perspective on AI as a tool for qualitative uplift, not just productivity.
• The idea of the “middle era” of AI—why it feels messy, and how visionary leaders navigate it.
• Lessons from Starbucks’ shift from digital‑first to AI‑first thinking.
• Why the real ROI of AI lies in better decisions, faster, across every function.

Episode Timeline:
00:00 — Highlight from today’s episode
01:15 — Introducing Adam + today’s topic
02:30 — The AI‑first mindset: where transformation really begins
06:00 — Bill Gates on why AI is bigger than any past tech shift
10:00 — Quantitative vs. qualitative productivity
12:00 — Inside “the middle era” of AI
16:00 — Defining the AI‑first company and leader
25:00 — Beyond ROI: reframing AI’s value
28:00 — Research insights: why AI improves decision quality
31:00 — From skepticism to the CEO’s “aha” moment
33:00 — What’s next after the middle era
38:00 — Closing reflections + how to keep learning from Adam

Additional Resources:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adambrotman
Book & Company: https://www.forum3.com/ai-first-book

Thank you to our guest, our executive producer Zach Ness, our editor James Pearce, and the Outthinker team. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.

Follow us at outthinkernetworks.com/podcast

Our guest today is Julia Austin—former senior leader at Akamai, VMware, and DigitalOcean, with decades of experience helping organizations make the leap from startup to scale. She’s also studied and guided countless founders as a professor at Harvard Business School. Julia now distills those lessons in her new book, After the Idea: What It Really Takes to Create and Scale a Startup.

In this conversation you’ll discover what separates ventures that thrive from those that stall. Every company begins with a spark, but too often innovators fall in love with ideas, overbuild too soon, or underestimate the hard realities of scaling and culture. Julia draws from experience spanning tech giants and countless startups to reveal how leaders can move from inspiration to momentum—and sustain innovation even as complexity grows.

You’ll learn practical frameworks and stories for transforming early insights into long-term impact. Whether you’re a founder, strategist, or innovator inside an established business, this conversation offers tools for approaching discovery, scaling, and culture design.

In this episode we cover:

• Four types of scrappy experiments every innovator should run: ethnographic, “be the bot,” Wizard of Oz, and low fidelity prototypes
• How to know if there’s really a there there in your market
• Balancing beachheads and total addressable markets while keeping unit economics in check
• Building competitive advantages through team, domain expertise, and partnerships
• How to design org structures and cultures that reward experimentation and embrace productive failure

Episode Timeline:

00:00 — Highlight from today’s episode
01:18 — Introducing Julia Austin and today’s topic
04:45 — “If you really know me…” Julia’s art background
06:30 — Julia’s definition of strategy as a “living, breathing map”
09:15 — Lessons from Akamai and VMware on scaling from startup to global enterprise
14:50 — The importance of discovery: why slowing down helps you go faster
21:05 — Four types of experiments: ethnographic, be the bot, Wizard of Oz, low fidelity
33:40 — Testing markets: TAM, beachheads, and unit economics
42:20 — Building competitive advantage beyond the idea
49:15 — Designing cultures that keep innovation alive at scale
55:45 — Why celebrating failure fuels long-term breakthroughs
01:02:10 — Julia’s book After the Idea and how to connect with her

Additional Resources:

• Book Website: https://www.aftertheideabook.com/
• Julia Austin's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/juliaaustin

Thank you to our guest, our executive producer Zach Ness, our editor James Pearce, and the Outthinker team. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.

Follow us at outthinkernetworks.com/podcast

Martin Reeves is Chairman of the BCG Henderson Institute and author of The Imagination Machine and his newest book, Like: The Button That Changed the World. A prolific strategist and researcher, Martin is known for uncovering practical lessons from unexpected places and helping leaders rethink innovation for the real world.

In this conversation, we trace the surprising story of the “like” button—how a few lines of JavaScript, cultural quirks, and serendipitous accidents reshaped business models, advertising, and even human behavior. Martin reveals why most groundbreaking ideas don’t emerge from lone geniuses, but from messy communities, chance encounters, and recombinations of old ideas into something new.

Whether you’re leading innovation at scale or just curious about the unintended consequences of technology, this episode will change how you think about creativity, feedback, and the ripple effects of small decisions.

In this episode we cover:

• Why the “like” button is the ultimate case study in serendipitous innovation
• How social signals scale beyond social media into CX, commerce, and B2B services
• The role of culture, language, and naming in shaping adoption and meaning
• Why second-order effects of innovation often matter more than first-order ones
• A practical lens for spotting and leveraging serendipity inside organizations

Episode Timeline:
00:00 – Introduction
02:00 – Guest Introduction
03:45 – Toaster Projects and Innovation
06:13 - Origins of the Like Button
08:25 - Cultural History of the Thumbs Up Gesture
14:31 - Multiple Inventors and Facebook's Role
34:27 - Inside the Code: How Likes Work
36:11 - Future Implications of Like Technology

Additional Resources:

• Book Website: LikeBook.org
• Martin’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/martin-reeves
• Book: Like: The Button That Changed the World

Thank you to our guest, Martin Reeves, our producers, and the Outthinkers team. If you enjoyed this conversation, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorf — see you next time on The Outthinkers Podcast.

Follow us at outthinkernetworks.com/podcast

Thank you to our guest, our executive producer Zach Ness, our editor James Pearce, and the Outthinker team. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.

Follow us at outthinkernetworks.com/podcast

Kurt Miscinski is the co-founder, CEO, and President of Cerity Partners, one of the fastest-growing firms in the wealth management space. Today, Cerity manages over $130 billion in client assets—but it started with a different vision: to create the first truly global, enduring professional services firm in wealth, drawing inspiration from firms like McKinsey and Deloitte, but applying it in a field that historically hasn’t operated that way.

In this conversation, Kurt shares how that vision came to life—not through consolidation, but through a partnership ethos and a language shift that reframed everything from equity to culture. This is a story of architecture: how to build a firm that scales without losing its soul, and how to align incentives, ownership, and strategy to fuel long-term value.

In this episode, we discuss:

• How Kurt went from being a CPA and Deutsche Bank executive to founder of a firm redefining wealth advisory
• Why Cerity’s operating model borrows more from McKinsey than Morgan Stanley—and how that unlocks scale
• The strategic philosophy behind reinvesting 100% of profits and how it shaped the firm’s culture of ownership
• How they use mergers to create a better firm, not just a bigger one—and why that distinction matters
• The role of language in shaping culture, from avoiding the word “employee” to framing every merger as a partnership

Episode Timeline:
00:00—Highlight from today's episode
00:55—Introducing Kurt + the topic of today’s episode
02:42—If you really know me, you know that...
05:30—What's your definition of strategy?
06:19—Creating Cerity—the founding story
08:57—Deutsche Bank and McKinsey as inspirations for a services-based business model
16:33—How has Cerity created a culture of partnership within the firm?
26:34—What is Cerity's model for capital allocation?
30:21—Where does the strategy office sit within the organization?
33:33—What are some of the principles that form your competitive differentiators?
37:03—How do you balance and maintain the coordination of the various services offered, as your clients evolve and grow?
41:03—What is your process for reevaluating and expanding your client services?
45:08—Closing

______________________________________________________________
Additional Resources:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kurtmiscinski
Cerity website: https://ceritypartners.com/

Thank you to our guest, our executive producer Zach Ness, our editor James Pearce, and the Outthinker team. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.

Follow us at outthinkernetworks.com/podcast

This special episode of Outthinkers was recorded in front of a live audience in NYC and made possible by our friends at LHH, a global leader in HR advisory and talent solutions, trusted by executives around the world to navigate change and lead with confidence. With deep expertise in executive search, leadership development, workforce transformation, and career transition, LHH empowers organizations and their leaders to thrive in an ever-evolving business landscape.

Our guest is none other than Oscar Munoz—former CEO and Chairman of United Airlines, who guided the airline through one of the most significant turnarounds in corporate history. He’s also the author of the acclaimed memoir Turnaround Time, which offers a behind-the-scenes look at the human side of executive leadership.

In this candid conversation, Oscar shares deeply personal lessons on leading through crisis, building trust from the ground up, and the enduring power of authenticity. Whether you're leading your organization through change or navigating a career transition, this conversation offers wisdom and inspiration for every step of the journey.

Thank you to our guest, our executive producer Zach Ness, our editor James Pearce, and the Outthinker team. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.

Follow us at outthinkernetworks.com/podcast

Ryan Hamilton is an associate professor of marketing at Emory University's Goizueta Business School and co-author of The Growth Dilemma: Managing Your Brand When Different Customers Want Different Things. He is also co-host of the podcast The Intuitive Customer, and author of a book by the same name. He has consulted on branding with companies like Walmart, FedEx, Home Depot, Caterpillar, ConAgra, Cigna, Visa, and Ipsos, among others.

To start a successful brand, you usually need to focus in on a specific, often niche, customer. But to grow the brand, you need to expand your customer base. A few brands have done this well (e.g., Starbucks or Apple) which have this loyal passionate base of fans that stick with them as the brands become ubiquitous. But, more often, brands fail to scale because the new customer they need in order to scale are too different from those core customers. They have different values or needs or beliefs.

In this episode, we dive into this dilemma, discussing how to predict, preempt, and manage the conflicts that will arise between a brand’s initial customers and the more varied customer segments it must attract in order to scale.

In this episode we cover:

• This concept of “CSRM”—customer segment relationship management”
• Examples of companies who have managed the growth dilemma well and those that have not—and what insights we can draw
• A practical framework outlining the four types of customer relationship scenarios you may be facing, and what strategies to deploy for each one
• How brands must be intentional about the type of value they offer

Episode Timeline:
00:00—Highlight from today's episode
01:14—Introducing Ryan + the topic of today’s episode
03:44—If you really know me, you know that...
05:12—What's your definition of strategy?
05:52—The basis for Ryan's second book, The Growth Dilemma
08:34—Breaking down an "identity of culture," within a brand
11:07—Have brands moved from functional to identity-based culture?
15:30—The concept of CSRM: Customer Segment Relationships Management (and the 2 x 2 matrix)
25:25—Breaking down the different types of customer segment conflicts
38:07—How do you know when you need to "fire" a customer segment?
41:19—How do the principles talked about in this episode apply to the employee segments?
43:30—How does the age of hyper-customization affect customer relationship management?
46:02—How can people continue learning from you?______________________________________________________________
Additional Resources:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryan-hamilton-49b3321/
Book website: https://www.growthdilemmabook.com/

Thank you to our guest, our executive producer Zach Ness, our editor James Pearce, and the Outthinker team. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.

Follow us at outthinkernetworks.com/podcast