In this episode, Jack Cochran and Matthew James are joined by Nikhil Sarma, Founder of GTM Solutions Consulting, to explore why customer indecision has become one of the biggest challenges in enterprise sales. They discuss the factors driving buyer hesitation, how to diagnose value clarity vs. organizational issues, and practical strategies for helping customers build the confidence to move forward. Nikhil shares frameworks for understanding stakeholder dynamics, the importance of financial fluency for SEs, and why de-risking the implementation is often more important than the technology itself.

Thank you to Storylane for sponsoring this episode. Get more information at https://www.storylane.io/

• Connect with Jack Cochran: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jackcochran/

• Connect with Matthew James: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewyoungjames/

• Connect with Nikhil Sarma: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nikhilsarma/

• Join Presales Collective Slack: https://www.presalescollective.com/slack

• GTM Solutions Consulting: https://www.gtmsolutions.co/

• The Jolt Effect Book: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/61418641-the-jolt-effect

• The Challenger Sale Book: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/11910902-the-challenger-sale

• Gartner Research on Buying Team Conflict

1. The Factors Driving Customer Indecision in 2025

2. Value Clarity vs. Organizational Issues

3. Understanding Stakeholder Levels (Operational, Manager, Executive)

4. Discovery as a Two-Way Learning Process

5. Diagnosing and Building Consensus Across Buying Teams

6. De-risking Implementation as a Differentiator

7. Financial Fluency for Presales Professionals

00:00 Welcome
04:45 What's Changed about Customer Buying Behavior
09:50 The Jolt Effect and Challenger Sale Frameworks
13:56 Value Clarity Problems vs. Organizational Issues
20:03 Collaborative Whiteboarding for Discovery
25:17 De-risking Implementation Wins Deals
28:50 How to Connect with Nikhil

In this episode, Jack Cochran and Matthew James are joined by Justin McDonald, Co-founder and CEO of Saleo, to discuss how demo automation technology is transforming the presales landscape. They explore the evolution of presales over the past 20 years, the hidden costs of demo preparation (the "demo tax"), and how AI is revolutionizing how solutions engineers create and personalize demonstrations. Justin shares insights on building relational capital, the importance of in-person meetings, and why the future of presales lies in leveraging technology to spend more quality time with buyers.

Thank you to Saleo for sponsoring this episode! Visit Saleo.io to learn more.

• Connect with Jack Cochran: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jackcochran/

• Connect with Matthew James: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewyoungjames/

• Connect with Justin McDonald: https://www.linkedin.com/in/justin-mcdonald-21a3aa6/

• Join Presales Collective Slack: https://www.presalescollective.com/slack

• Saleo: https://saleo.io/

• Mockaroo (dummy data generator): https://mockaroo.com/

00:00 Welcome

04:24 How has presales evolved over 20 years

09:20 Demo tax

13:37 The importance of in-person meetings

15:55 Breaking down the demo tax components

24:47 AI and Demo Data Agents

26:42 Trends reshaping presales in 2026

1. The Evolution of Presales Technology

   • From manual data creation with tools like Mockaroo to automated demo environments

   • The rise of presales as a respected profession with executive leadership

   • Shift from multi-week prep and constant travel to efficient Zoom-based demos

2. The Demo Prep Tax

   • Multiple departments impacted: DevOps, product, engineering, and SEs

   • Hard dollar costs: hosting demo tenants can cost millions at scale

   • Demo data degradation: perfectly prepared demos degrade over time

   • SE time is expensive, and hours spent on manual data preparation adds up

3. Building Relational Capital

   • Only 17% of sales time is spent with buyers (even less for presales)

   • In-person interactions unlock opportunities that Zoom calls cannot

   • EQ and relationship-building will separate good from great in the age of AI

4. AI-Powered Demo Automation

   • Demo Data Agent: generates personalized demo data with a single prompt

   • Token-based customization for industry, vertical, and use case adaptation

   • Data injection technology allows real-time demo personalization

5. The Future of Presales

   • AI will expand automation across the entire sales cycle

   • Agentic and asynchronous AI tools will support SEs 24/7

   • SEs won't be replaced, their time will be used differently

   • The demo data is the story: great storytelling requires great demo data

In this episode, Jack Cochran and Matthew James are joined by Hannah Bloking, and Allison Macalik, co-founders of 4Under3. They discuss the universal challenge of imposter syndrome in the pre-sales profession, exploring how it manifests, why it affects nearly everyone, and practical strategies to address it. Hannah and Allison share insights from their workshops, including powerful techniques like the "lighthouse speaker" mindset and the importance of naming your imposter to take control of those negative thoughts.

Thank you to Storylane for sponsoring this episode.

Follow the Hosts and Guests

• Connect with Jack Cochran: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jackcochran/

• Connect with Matthew James: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewyoungjames/

• Connect with Hannah Bloking: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hannahcfrisch/

• Connect with Allison Macalik: https://www.linkedin.com/in/allisonmacalik/

Links and Resources Mentioned

• Storylane: https://storylane.io

• Join Presales Collective: https://www.presalescollective.com/community-overview

• 4Under3: https://4under3.io/

• Email: info@4under3.io

• Follow 4Under3 on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/4under3/

Timestamps

00:00 Opening

03:36 Why Focus on Impostor Syndrome

11:57 The Definition of Impostor Syndrome

14:45 Redefinining as a Phenomenon

20:15 Soft Skills is Important

24:50 The Lighthouse Speaker Mindset

27:15 Zip it, Todd!

Key Topics Covered

1. Understanding Imposter Syndrome

   • The textbook definition: "The persistent inability to believe that one's success is deserved or has been legitimately achieved as a result of one's own efforts or skills"

   • Why it's being reframed as "imposter phenomenon" rather than syndrome

   • How it manifests differently for everyone

   • The discovery that it affects people of all genders, levels, and backgrounds

2. The Presales Connection

   • Why imposter syndrome is particularly prevalent in pre-sales roles

   • The challenge of being asked to be an expert when you're still learning

   • Why internal demos to your own team are the hardest presentations to give

   • The adrenaline rush of presenting and how it relates to imposter feelings

3. Breaking the Silence

   • Why people suffer in silence with imposter syndrome

   • The power of creating space for vulnerability before major initiatives

   • How company culture needs to embrace these conversations

   • The importance of repeat workshops and ongoing dialogue

4. Practical Techniques

   • The Lighthouse Speaker vs. Spotlight Speaker: Thinking of yourself as lighting the way for others rather than being under scrutiny

   • Naming Your Imposter: Giving your negative self-talk a name (like "Todd") to externalize and control it

   • Reframing: Documenting what happens to realize most failures aren't actually about you

   • Finding Your Person: Identifying someone who can hold you accountable when your imposter is talking

5. The Workshop Impact

   • Why companies become repeat customers

   • How addressing imposter syndrome improves productivity and retention

   • The connection between soft skills training and embracing new frameworks

   • Creating internal communities (like AWS's "The Nest") for ongoing support

6. Looking Forward

   • The personal nature of addressing imposter syndrome

   • The importance of daily practice and repetition

   • How workshops facilitate conversations but individuals must do the work

   • The evolving nature of imposter syndrome as AI and change management accelerate