Kimberly is joined by luminary thinker Dr. Betty Martin as they discuss the evolution and impact of the Wheel of Consent, a vanguard model for enthusiastic consent, asking for what you want, and living out embodied intimacy. Dr. Martin, who developed the model, shares her journey from creating the wheel through her hands-on workshops to writing a book so the wheel may reach an even larger audience, with Kimberly noting just how deep of an impact Betty’s work has had on Kimberly’s teaching and offerings. They explore the challenges of enthusiastic consent, the importance of feeling with one's hands, and the universal nature, as well as the cultural nuances, of touch and sex. Betty emphasizes the need for accurate teaching and the development of the wheel of consent in various fields, including therapy, businesses and social justice. The conversation highlights the significance of embodiment and the incomparable emotional impact of present and thoughtful touch.

Bio

Dr. Betty Martin spent her childhood in a large family and her youth in experimental communities, learning about people in more groups than she can count. Founding a co-housing community with countless hours of meetings taught her the value of excellent facilitation. Now she enjoys helping others learn the skills she picked up along the way.

She graduated Chiropractic College in 1976 and practiced for almost 30 years, including several body-mind integration modalities. She has taught Peer Counseling for teens and adults, Educational Kinesiology and other bodywork for professionals, sexuality workshops for women, gender liberation, and boundary and communication workshops of many flavors, including Cuddle Party.

After retiring from her Chiropractic practice on Vashon Island, she moved into Seattle and opened a private practice as a relationship and intimacy coach, where she guided people through somatic experiences, sometimes erotic and sometimes not, so they could learn how to be comfortable in their own skin and experience pleasure in ways that supported their development.

It was during those years of working with hundreds of people that she noticed and developed the Wheel of Consent, a practice and a model of taking apart receiving and giving. She started sharing her experience with other practitioners and developed the 5-day training, Like a Pro, focusing on the Wheel, communication and professional standards.

In 2018 she co-founded the School of Consent, where she has trained numerous facilitators of Wheel of Consent workshops, and a handful of faculty to teach Like a Pro. She is happily handing over teaching to those she has trained, and these days contributes to other organizations’ trainings and presents to various professional groups. She also enjoys offering supervision and mentoring to practitioners.

She once again lives in community and is the proud mom of 3 and grandma of 2.

What You’ll Hear

• Dr. Martin’s background in chiropractic, body-mind integration modalities, and her development of the wheel of consent

• Betty’s 13 year writing process and how her clients led her to constantly evolve her concepts for the book

• The development of the Three-Minute Game the value of taking turns and asking for what you want

• Why receiving can often be harder than giving.

• The importance of touch and attention to intimacy

• Why training new teachers is so important to Dr. Martin

• They discuss cultural differences as it relates to touch and sex

• The emergence of the term enthusiastic consent

• The reach of The Wheel of Consent from relationships to communities to businesses to social movements

• The exercise of waking up the hands to improve ability to feel with them

Resources

Website: https://www.wheelofconsent.org/

Ig: @drbettymartin

Book: https://www.wheelofconsent.org/thebook

Activate Your Inner Jaguar: Sexuality and the Nervous System sign up link is here

In this episode, Kimberly and Elena discuss and reflect on their life experiences through nearly two decades of knowing one another. They discuss radical forgiveness for our families of origin, the importance of stillness and meditation, children leaving the home, and menopause. They also discuss what led Elena to write her upcoming book “Hold Nothing,” which offers stories and prompts as an artful contemplative guide towards personal, daily practice for self-discovery and self-wisdom. Kimberly reads powerful excerpts aloud, and you can preorder the book in the link below.

Bio

Elena Brower is a mother, mentor, poet, artist, volunteer, bestselling author, and podcast host. She is a celebrated international yoga and meditation teacher on Glo, guiding transformative practices since 1999. Her books include the “Art of Attention: A Yoga Practice Workbook for Movement as Meditation,” bestselling journal “Practice You and Being You” her collection of poetry entitled “Softening Time,” along with her courses, classes, and talks, explore stages of studentship, practice, life, and listening. Her latest book “Hold Nothing” investigates what it means to let go of narratives and return to the spacious emptiness within. She also has a column on Substack and podcast Practice You. She offers weekly classes and is a candidate in Upaya’s Chaplaincy Training. She volunteers in hospice and penitentiary settings, bringing yoga, meditation, and compassionate presence to her local and broader communities.

What She Shares:

–Forgiveness, repair and acceptance

–Practice of daily stillness and stability

–Powerful excerpts from new book

–Excerpts read from new book “Hold Nothing”

What You’ll Hear:

–What sticks with Kimberly from Elena’s teachings

–Elena forgiving mother

–Mercy and forgiveness for family of origen

–Holding onto grudges instead of real repair

–Impacting our actual spheres

–Incentivizing holding grudges long-term in culture

–Having direct contact with the present

–In contact with body as medicine

–Everyone doing their best at all times

–Making our consciousness transparent to ourselves

–Why Elena wanted to write a new book

–Meditations and personal writings

–Universal permission slip to be tender with ourselves

–How stories, prompts, and artwork came about

–Impact of writing in present tense

–Getting reader in scene that unfolds as if happening presently

–Reading excerpt from book on uncertainty

–Daily sitting in stillness to allow thoughts to emerge

–Importance of humility in work

–Addressing accusations, controversies, and publicness

–Importance of relationships, close inner-circle, close proximity

–Bringing down women taking initiatives to serve

–Evolving definition of family

–Staying present and listening during hard conversations

–Children leaving home for college

–Mothering young adults

–Conflicting emotions with children leaving home

–Advice for mothers in new paradigm shifts

–Kimberly’s fresh experience taking Cece to college

–Opening to stability

–Stabilizing principle at center of every circumstance

–Turning chaos to stability

–Working in a vacuum to focus on own work

–Addressing issues of AI as writers and teachers

–Focus, devotion, returning to what matters

–Menopausal transitions with weights, HRT, supplements, sleep, friends

–Regulating nervous system through menopause

–Elena’s Matter of Menopause podcast for menopause education

–Kimberly’s underworld experience of menopause

–Hormones are gods

–Preorder upcoming book “Hold Nothing”

Resources

Website: https://elenabrower.com/ and https://elenabrower.com/menopause/

IG: @elenabrower

Jaguar Sex Edition Sign Up Here

Bio

Michel Odent, MD, is a French obstetrician trained as a general surgeon known for his tireless research on how environmental factors present during pregnancy and birth affect babies,
children, and our communities. He is the founder of the Primal Health Research Centre and authored the first articles on the initiation of lactation and the use of birthing pools. He has authored 15 books and passed on August 19, 2025.

What He Shares:

• Why birth is an important subject not only for birth workers, but for all people interested in the future of our species.
• Why the period of birth is a critical period in a person’s life
• The inability to study the long-term, non-specific affect of modern pregnancy and birth practices
• Exploring the changes in Homo sapiens resulting from birthing practices

What You’ll Hear:

• How birthing hormones affect our biological programing
• Understanding the needs of a laboring person
• Why the microbiome of a newborn baby affects a their lifelong health
• How the future of our species is being modified based on birth environments
• Discovering the correlation between birth choices and children’s behavior
• Developing appropriate questions around new pregnancy and birth practices
• Improving research ability to answer unknowns
• The difficulty of understanding the long term risk factors of birthing choices
• Prioritizing the development of new research questions
• Why pregnancy is not the best time to educate yourself on these issues
• Expanding our view beyond the individual choices to the medical establishment
• Becoming bilingual in the languages of intuitive knowledge and scientific research
• Exploring how making birth a social event altered the fetal ejection reflex
• How technological advancements have altered birth

Links

Youtube of the Interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPKd9TmyMB0

In this episode, Kimberly and Bethany discuss their reflections and experiences of attachment and mothering their adult children. Bethany describes changes in how she viewed herself and parenting while her daughter became an adult herself while Kimberly shares her experiences mothering her daughter who is about to move out of their home for the first time. They share challenges, frustrations, and confusing moments around their attachment and parenting, particularly as they age themselves. As most parenting content focuses on the early years, this conversation reveals the nuances of what attachment parenting actually is and how they are navigating its challenges while parenting their grown daughters.

Bio

Bethany Saltman is a literary agent, mother, wife, zen practitioner, and author of “Strange Situation: A Mother’s Journey Into the Science of Attachment.” She has an extensive background in writing, teaching, publishing, and devotes her time as a literary agent helping people put their stories into the world. She is a long-time friend of Kimberly’s and a repeat podcast guest.

What She Shares:

–Different kinds of attachment and the adult attachment test

–Mothering through seasons

–Generational differences of parenting

–Navigating challenges of mothering adult children

What You’ll Hear:

–Different types of attachment

–Securely attached is independent

–Develop through creativity and exploration with secure base

–Flexibility and response with parenting

–Behavior versus attachment

–Parameters for boundaries when discussing children publicly

–Posting children on social media

–Attachment research with adults

–Generational leaps around attachment and development

–Mothering through perimenopause

–Hormonal changes through mothering and phases

–Similarities between toddler and teenage years

–Experiencing the second half of life while mothering

–Values shifting through mothering phases

–Cultural differences around parenting young adults

–Leaving versus staying the nest

–Generational differences of survival wiring

–Frustrations of parenting adults

–Self-actualization leaving parents’ house

–Adult attachment interview protocol

–Mixed feelings shows secure attachment in adulthood

–Importance of rupture and repair instead of only positive

–Spirituality, religion, and parenting

Resources

Website: https://www.bethanysaltman.com/

IG: @bethany_saltman

Class

Sign up for Jagamama Summer School here: https://kimberlyannjohnson.com/jagamama/

Summary

In this episode, Kimberly interviews her favorite podcast guest–her daughter Cece! Cece’s last podcast episode was four years ago, so she shares her reflections around graduating highschool, her college application process, and her experiences as being Kimberly’s daughter. She also turns the mic back to Kimberly to ask Kimberly her own reflections on life’s various stages, single parenting, and what she wants her work to look like after Cece flies the nest.

Bio

Cece, Kimberly's daughter, is a 17 year old high school graduate and vocalist.

What She Shares:

–Cece’s college application process

–Reflections on being Kimberly’s daughter

–Decisions around college and major

–Cece interviews Kimberly

What You’ll Hear:

–Graduating highschool

–How Cece feels being apart of Kimberly’s “brand”

–Why Cece wants to go to college

–Highly academic highschool

–Where Cece will attend college

–Applying to various colleges

–Ranking safety schools, match schools, and reach schools

–Writing college application essays

–Cultural neuroses of applying to colleges

–Kimberly’s experience of college applications

–Reflections on being an only child

–Wanting a sibling

–Being the focus as an only child

–Thoughts on being Kimberly’s daughter

–How Cece feels leaving home

–Excited about moving to Scotland

–Navigating the current political climate

–Kimberly’s reflections about being a maiden

–What Kimberly finds hard about single parenting

–What Kimberly would do differently as a parent

–Kimberly’s favorite part of being Cece’s mom

–How being Cece’s mom informs Kimberly’s work

–Parenting phases that Kimberly misses

–Kimberly’s work as fringe and niche

–How Kimberly views her future work

–What it’s like to be a teenager right now

–How Cece handles having a phone

–Cece’s advice for other parents

–Cece’s music update

–Cece’s offers support for college application process

Resources

Email: cecevieira@protonmail.com

IG: @ceciliajvieira

In this episode, Kimberly switches roles to be in the interviewee seat herself while Elisa asks and reflects about Kimberly’s Mothering the Bones retreats. They just finished one retreat in Wales and reflect on how moving and transformative it was for the gathering to be holding one another. They also discuss the origins of Mothering the Bones–how Kimberly came to this work and why she feels it is the apex of all of her expertise, knowledge, and purpose.

Bio

Elisa Mary Haggarty is an Executive and Conscious Leadership Coach, host of The Soul Podcast, and fellow jaguar. She coaches leaders to become more aware of how they are operating and the impact of how they relate to those around them through Conscious Leadership. She also has a diverse background in somatics and holistics and nutritional wellness. She is based in NYC but serves globally.

What She Shares:

–Mothering the Bones origins

–Nuances of session work in community

–Non-traditional approaches to gathering

–Making space for spontaneous emergence

What You’ll Hear:

–One week out from Mothering the Bones retreat

–Level of intimacy and vulnerability in Kimberly’s work

–Why Kimberly does Mothering the Bones

–Kimberly’s background in body work and nervous systems

–Session work in group

–Elise’s experience at Ghost Ranch

–Lay practitioner defined

–Taking care of people, people of place, and the land

–Range of grief and joy

–Meta-level analysis not needed when sessions occur

–Tactile practice has emerged

–Next step beyond ROLFing and body-work

–Holding the pelvis and witnessing

–Decentralizing role of practitioner

–Importance of witness space as recipient

–Conscientiousness about care and support

–Not all trauma work is intense

–Allow the body to be in blue

–Distributing weight of session with multiple people

–Pairing experts with novices

–Witnessing a freeze

–Repairing with other women’s presence

–Resourced to receive, give, and listen

–Burnout and unsustainability in community work

–Impossibility of birth work and community care in these times

–Value of midwives and second-generation births

–Upcoming book for Mothering the Bones work

–Touch, touching the pelvis non-sexually, sitting, consent

–Bringing whole self to bodywork

–Radical touch

–Listening, presence, story

–Value of artistry in trauma-work

–Non-traditional ways of learning

–Giving space for emerging creativity to come out

–Sexuality and birth require emergence and spontaneity

–Being responsive to group’s needs

–Loosening control in community gatherings

–Art of embodiment

–Opportunities to be spontaneous and surprised

–Tending to place and land of retreats

–Depth and saturation of place

–Different approaches to in-person versus online

–Bodies that need held the most

–Bone holding practice for presence and healing

Resources

Website: https://www.elisamaryhaggarty.com/

IG: @elisamaryhaggarty