Eric chats with 2024 Nobel Laureate Geoffrey Hinton and Stanford Professor Jay McClelland, two pioneers who have spent nearly half a century laying the groundwork for modern-day AI, advancing research on neural networks long before it captured the world's imagination.

In fact, their early work faced significant skepticism from the scientific community - an experience they candidly discuss in this episode. This wide-ranging conversation covers everything from the capabilities of recent breakthrough LLMS like DeepSeek to AI agents, the nature of memory and confabulation, the challenges to aligning AI with human values when we humans don’t even agree on our values, and Geoff's fascinating new theory of language, featuring an analogy of words as thousand-dimensional, shape-shifting Lego blocks with hands.

Geoff, who retired in 2023, divided his time between the University of Toronto and Google DeepMind. With numerous accolades including the 2018 Turing Award and 2024 Nobel Prize in Physics, he is perhaps best known for co-developing the backpropagation algorithm - now a cornerstone of AI research. Jay, currently at Stanford and Google DeepMind, has revolutionized our understanding of human learning through his work on Parallel Distributed Processing (PDP), applying neural network principles to understand phenomena like language acquisition. His insights into human learning have profoundly influenced how we understand machine learning.

Their friendship dates back to the late 1970s and grew stronger as both collaborated with fellow pioneer David Rumelhart. They share some touching memories about Dave in this episode. Remarkably, despite decades of friendship and building upon each other's work, this appears to be their first recorded conversation together. Eric challenged them to discuss their latest insights and disagreements.

This episode was recorded on January 29, 2025.

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Links:

Geoff's website

Geoff's Google Scholar

Jay's website

Jay's Google Scholar

Eric's website

Eric's X @EricNeumannPsy

Podcast X @StanfordPsyPod

Podcast Substack https://stanfordpsypod.substack.com/

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This week, Misha chats with Dr. Alex Shaw, Associate Professor at the University of Chicago's Department of Psychology. His research explores how children and adults navigate the complex world of social behavior, with a particular focus on morality, fairness, and social judgments.

In this episode, Dr. Shaw discusses his fascinating research on why attempts to stay neutral in moral and political disagreements can sometimes backfire. His work reveals that when people choose not to take sides on contentious issues, they may actually be viewed as less trustworthy than those who openly disagree. Through a series of experiments, Dr. Shaw and his colleagues found that this distrust stems from observers perceiving neutrality as strategic deception. The conversation also covers broader insights about human social behavior and includes advice for PhD applicants.

Alex's paper
Alex's faculty page
Lab website

Misha's website

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Marginalia Episode is a collaboration between the Stanford Psychology Podcast and Marginalia Science. Marginalia Science is a community committed to promoting work of scholars who are traditionally underrepresented in academia. Their mission really resonated with our values at the Stanford Psychology Podcast.

In each Marginalia Episode, we feature a guest who has been featured in the Marginalia Science Monthly Newsletter. In this episode, Enna chats with Professor Erica Bailey at UC Berkeley Haas School of Business. Erica broadly studies the construct of authenticity, asking questions like, how do we know who we are? When do we feel the most like ourselves? Why do we often fail, despite our best efforts, to share our inner world with others? In this episode, we discuss her recent paper on how self-perceptions influence subjective authenticity. To learn more about Erica, you can read the Marginalia Science Newsletter below.

Episode on Marginalia Science: https://www.stanfordpsychologypodcast.com/episodes/episode/7927b876/104-special-episode-marginalia-science

Marginalia Newsletter featuring Erica: https://substack.com/home/post/p-153969383

Erica’s Paper: https://osf.io/preprints/psyarxiv/9tc27

Erica’s Website: https://sites.google.com/view/ericarbailey

Erica’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erica-bailey-ph-d-22038172/

Erica’s Twitter: @ericarbailey

Enna’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ennayuxuanchen/

Enna’s Twitter: @EnnaYuxuanChen

Podcast Twitter: @StanfordPsyPod

Podcast Substack: https://stanfordpsypod.substack.com/

Podcast Contact: stanfordpsychpodcast@gmail.com

Eric chats with Sandra Matz, Associate Professor of Business at Columbia Business School. Sandra is a renowned computational social scientist, using AI and big data to study human behavior and preferences. Sandra was named as one of the Poets & Quants 40 under 40 Business School Professors in 2021.

In this episode, Eric and Sandra discuss Sandra’s new book “Mindmasters” on how companies and academics are using AI to predict and shape people’s personalities. They discuss how to align AI with human preferences, how social media is harnessing our attention, how to protect our privacy as AI is becoming more and more powerful, and whether to use or avoid AI friends and therapists.

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Links:

Sandra’s new book Mindmasters
Sandra’s website
Sandra’s Google Scholar

Eric's website
Eric's X @EricNeumannPsy

Podcast X @StanfordPsyPod
Podcast Substack https://stanfordpsypod.substack.com/

Let us know what you think of this episode, or of the podcast! stanfordpsychpodcast@gmail.com

This week, Enna chats with Dr. Casey Kenyon Brown, Professor at Georgetown University in the Department of Psychology and the Interdisciplinary Program in Neuroscience. She has received numerous honors and awards, including the prestigious Pathway to Independence Award from the National Institute on Aging and the Rising Star Award from the Association for Psychological Science.

Casey’s research examines how we share, understand, and influence one another’s emotions. She’s interested in how these interpersonal emotional processes are beneficial for healthy aging, and how these processes may go awry and contribute to depression.

In this episode, Casey shares her journey in psychology, talks about her research on emotion and relationships, and provides advice on how we can build strong connections with people we love.

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Casey’s Lab Website: https://careslab.facultysite.georgetown.edu/

Casey’s Lab Twitter: @CARESlab_GU

Casey’s paper on empathy and shared depression: https://doi.org/10.1177/21677026221141852

Enna’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ennayuxuanchen/

Enna’s Twitter: @EnnaYuxuanChen

Podcast Contact: stanfordpsychpodcast@gmail.com

Podcast Twitter: @StanfordPsyPod

Adani chats with Kate Petrova, one of the first hosts of the Stanford Psychology Podcast and a fourth-year Ph.D. student in psychology at Stanford University. In this special episode from our Meet the Host series, Kate shares her journey into research and science communication, and how she grappled with the ups and downs of graduate school! She also discusses the value and challenges of interdisciplinarity, what affective science is and could look like in the future, and what most excites her about that picture!

If you found this episode interesting at all, subscribe on our Substack and consider leaving us a good rating! It just takes a second but will allow us to reach more people and make them excited about psychology.

Kate’s website: https://www.kpetrova.com/home
Kate’s twitter: @kate_ptrv
Kate’s paper on The Future of Emotion Regulation Research: https://doi.org/10.1007/s42761-023-00222-0
Kate’s first episode with her advisor, Dr. James Gross: https://open.spotify.com/episode/4pSGtdQmywj2ubmFAeaDL5?si=1ZFsw45OQGKvWClAG6VYQg

Adani’s website: https://www.adaniabutto.com
Adani’s Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/adani.bsky.social

Podcast Twitter @StanfordPsyPod
Podcast Substack Stanford Psychology Podcast

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Anjie chats with Dr. Michael Schwalbe and Dr. Geoff Cohen. Michael is a postdoctoral fellow at Stanford University, from which he also received his PhD in social psychology. Geoff is a Professor of Psychology and the James G. March Professor of Organizational Studies in Education and Business at Stanford University. His research examines the processes that shape people’s sense of belonging and self-concept, and the role that these processes play in various social problems. In this episode, Michael and Geoff shared their most recent work on biases we have when consuming political news: people were more likely to believe and share news aligned with their political beliefs, compared to news that was true, even when the headlines were outlandishly fake. They also talked about the implications of these biases for democracy, misinformation, and how we might counteract our own tendencies to favor agreeable but untrue information.

Michael & Geoff’s paper: https://psycnet.apa.org/fulltext/2025-33892-004.html

Stanford Report's coverage on the paper: https://news.stanford.edu/stories/2024/10/new-study-shows-that-partisanship-trumps-truth

Michael’s Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelschwalbe/

Geoff’s lab website: http://cohenlab.stanford.edu

Geoff’s personal website: https://www.geoffreylcohen.com/bio

Anjie’s: website: anjiecao.github.io

Anjie’s Twitter @anjie_cao

Podcast Twitter @StanfordPsyPod

Podcast Substack https://stanfordpsypod.substack.com/

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Adani chats with Dr. Julia Chatain, Senior Scientist at the Singapore-ETH Centre of ETH Zürich. Julia is a computer scientist and learning scientist responsible for building a new research program, “Future Embodied Learning Technologies” (FELT), focusing on exploring AI-powered embodied learning interventions to support low-progress learners and learners with special needs, both at the cognitive and the affective levels. Before that, she led the EduTech group at ETH Zürich, conducting Research and Development of educational technology through co-design with lecturers and students, with a focus on XR, AI-supported learning, and accessibility.

In this episode, Adani and Julia discuss Julia’s recent work on embodied learning in mathematics, much of which was part of her doctoral research at ETH Zürich conducted with her advisors Prof. Manu Kapur and Prof. Robert Sumner. They also dive into her journey that led her to where she is now, and discuss what she is currently working on at the Singapore-ETH Centre and beyond!

If you found this episode interesting at all, subscribe on our Substack and consider leaving us a good rating! It just takes a second but will allow us to reach more people and make them excited about psychology.

Julia’s website: https://juliachatain.com/
Julia’s paper on Grounding Graph Theory in Embodied Concreteness with VR: https://doi.org/10.3929/ethz-b-000583039
Singapore-ETH Centre’s website: https://sec.ethz.ch/
Julia’s Twitter @JuliaChatain

Adani’s website: https://www.adaniabutto.com/
Adani’s Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/adani.bsky.social

Podcast Twitter @StanfordPsyPod
Podcast Substack https://stanfordpsypod.substack.com/

Let us know what you thought of this episode, or of the podcast! :)
stanfordpsychpodcast@gmail.com