Arthur is an academic and writer. The former president of the American Enterprise Institute, he’s a professor at Harvard Business School and the Kennedy School, where he teaches courses on leadership and happiness. The author of 13 books — including the 2023 bestseller he co-authored with Oprah Winfrey: Build the Life You Want — his latest is The Happiness Files, a curated collection from his “How to Build a Life” column at The Atlantic. He’s also the host of the “How to Build a Happy Life” podcast.

An auto-transcript is available above (just click “Transcript” while logged into Substack). For two clips of our convo — how to prevent Trump from wrecking your mood, and how to open up your right brain — head to our YouTube page.

Other topics: raised in Seattle by an artist mom and mathematician dad; converting to Catholicism as a teen; his early career as a French horn player; meeting his Spanish wife at a young age — and not speaking the same language; the risks that immigrants take; the British aversion to striving; walking the Camino de Santiago; his mother’s struggle with depression her whole life; how half of your happiness level is genetic; Charles Murray on religion; near-death experiences; Burke; Emerson; Oakeshott; animal impulse vs moral aspiration; Nicomachean Ethics; success as a false siren; Spinoza; our obsession with screens; the AI explosion; time management; the Daily Dish and my burnout in 2015; silent meditation retreats; the happiness of having a dog; Arthur’s work with the Dalai Lama; Buddhist vs Christian suffering; my deepest fear; my HIV test; the importance of failure for strivers; Stoicism; psychedelics; the Sabbath; the denialism over death; and how change is the only thing we can count on.

Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy. Coming up: Laura Field on the intellectuals of Trumpism, Vivek Ramaswamy on the right’s future, Jason Willick on trade and conservatism, and Claire Berlinski on America’s retreat from global hegemony. Please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.

Simon is a clinical psychologist who writes about the connections between “Narcissism, Trauma, Fame, and Power” — the name of his substack. He has over 20 years experience in the field of treatment of personality disorders and complex PTSD — the field of psychology in which narcissism is most invoked. We talked about what narcissism is, healthy and unhealthy; and we discuss some famous narcissists — Charlie Chaplin, John Lennon, Hitler, Churchill — and the childhood patterns they have in common. Then of course you-know-who, our Malignant Narcissist-In-Chief.

For three clips of our convo — how narcissism is formed in childhood, my own struggles with it, and when narcissism turns malignant — head to our YouTube page.

Other topics: growing up in Birmingham; his mom a social worker and his dad a probation officer; Simon working in prison psych units; personality disorders vs mental illness; the Big Five traits; bipolarism; Freud and trauma; cold parenting; the Best Little Boy in the World syndrome; the coping strategies of narcissists; Sly Stallone; Norma Desmond; the benefits of narcissism for society; John Lennon’s violent bullying of others; Churchill’s childhood wounds; his psychic similarities with Hitler; Charlie Chaplin and sex trafficking; Trump’s sadism from a very young age; his nonstop superlatives; his 2020 denialism; his retribution crusade; how Obama’s narcissism is different than Trump’s; the new interview with Susie Wiles; the new Diddy documentary; Nietzsche’s Übermensch; social media as a playground for narcissism; the love-bombing of Trump’s 2016 rallies; his empty marriage to Melania; Epstein; and the danger of Trump’s psyche when allies like MTG turn on him.

Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy. Coming up: Arthur Brooks on the science of happiness, Laura Field on the intellectuals of Trumpism, Vivek Ramaswamy on the right’s future, Jason Willick on trade and conservatism, and Claire Berlinksi on America’s retreat from global hegemony. Please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.

Shadi is a Washington Post columnist and a senior fellow at Georgetown University’s Center for Muslim-Christian Understanding. He runs a substack with Damir Marusic called Wisdom of Crowds, and his new book is The Case for American Power. It’s the third time Shadi has been on the Dishcast. We hashed out the National Security Strategy and the future of US leadership in the world, if any.

For two clips of our convo — on Bush’s idealism leading to anarchy in Iraq, and whether Trump’s amorality is stabilizing the Middle East — head to our YouTube page.

Other topics: Shadi raised with a mixed identity (American/Muslim/Arab); both parents from Egypt where he spent summers; the reinvention of immigrants; the peace and prosperity of the ‘90s; our innocence shattered on 9/11; external and internal jihad; religion in public life; the Koran; blasphemy laws in the UK; Charles Taylor and the loss of enchantment; political cults like MAGA and SJW; Deneen and other post-liberals; Obama’s realism in the Mideast; the Arab Spring; Islam’s tension with liberalism; how Israel undermined Obama; the settlements; Gaza; Muslim views of women and gays in the West; the US intervening in Bosnia, Kosovo, and the Persian Gulf; oikophobia; elites opening up China and creating a rival; Taiwan; Russia after the USSR; the invasion of Georgia and Crimea; the Syrian war and refugee crisis; the war in Ukraine; Vance in Munich; and Trump’s pressure on NATO to arm itself.

Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy. Coming up: Simon Rogoff on the narcissism of pols and celebrities (from Diddy to Churchill to Trump), Laura Field on the intellectuals of Trumpism, Arthur Brooks on the science of happiness, Vivek Ramaswamy on the right’s future, and Jason Willick on trade and conservatism. Please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.