Private equity is circling the legal industry, and Lucian Pera is helping make sense of what that means for MSO law firms and beyond.

Joining Chris Batz and Howard Rosenberg, Lucian breaks down how management services organizations (MSOs) and alternative business structures (ABSs) are giving outside investors new ways to participate in the economics of law - without running afoul of ethics rules like ABA Rule 5.4.

Lucian makes it clear that these models are tools, not shortcuts. For some firms, an MSO structure may unlock the capital needed for technology, acquisitions, or ambitious growth plans. For others, a traditional loan or internal funding might make more sense. The critical step, he argues, is matching structure to strategy, rather than chasing the latest buzz.

As interest from PE firms and family offices surges, the profession faces a choice: see outside money as a threat, or recognize the opportunities it brings to modernize how law firms operate. Lucian leans toward the latter. Just as medicine and accounting were reshaped by investment, he believes law is in the midst of its own slow-motion revolution where the business side of the profession is finally catching up with reality. For lawyers and investors alike, understanding MSOs, ABSs, and the ethics that govern them is a glimpse into where the legal market is headed next.

Episode Breakdown:

00:00 Meet Lucian Pera

01:04 MSO Law Firms Explained

05:09 Rule 5.4 and Legal Compliance

09:19 Market Trends and Investor Interest

15:45 Which Law Firms Are Using MSOs

18:17 Private Capital: Threat or Opportunity?

25:19 ABS Structures in Law Firms

30:10 ABS vs. MSO: Key Differences

32:10 Future Outlook for Law Firms and PE

Connect with Lucian Pera:

Connect with Lucian on LinkedIn

Lucian’s Website Bio

Connect with Howard Rosenberg:

Connect with Howard on LinkedIn

Howard’s Company Web Profile

Connect with Chris Batz:

Connect with Chris on LinkedIn

Follow Columbus Street on LinkedIn

Columbus Street Website

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

Mid-sized law firms are facing pressure from every direction. Associates are poached with six-figure pay bumps, partners are stretched thin between billing and management, and specialty practices vanish without succession plans. At the same time, clients expect broader reach and deeper benches than many firms can deliver.

In this episode, host Chris Batz shares what he’s hearing directly from managing partners and executive committee members across the country. He outlines the squeeze mid-sized firms are feeling - lagging organic growth, talent retention challenges, leadership burnout - and the difficult choices leaders are weighing: scale up, go lean, or join a larger platform.

Chris also looks at the emerging role of private equity in law firm ownership and the ripple effects it could have on culture, compensation, and competition. Along the way, he points out steps firms can take now: sharpen strategic vision, invest in leadership and succession, strengthen recruiting systems, and pursue growth through the right mergers or acquisitions.

At its heart, this episode asks a question every firm should confront: how do you stay competitive without exhausting the people who make your firm strong?

Episode Breakdown:

00:00 Why Mid-Sized Law Firms Are Struggling

03:30 Why Talent Keeps Leaving Mid-Sized Firms

04:28 The Leadership Burnout Crisis in Law Firms

07:37 Scenario 1: Losing Lead Counsel Work to Bigger Firms

11:31 Scenario 2: Rainmakers With No Succession Plan

14:04 Billing vs. Leading — Can Firm Leaders Do Both?

18:19 Growth Choices: Lateral Hires, Acquisitions, or Mergers

24:01 Should Mid-Sized Firms Join Larger Platforms?

26:09 The Hidden Cost of Burnout in Firm Leadership

32:17 How Private Equity Is Changing Law Firms

34:18 Strategies for Mid-Sized Firms to Compete

43:48 Key Lessons for Law Firm Leaders

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/

LinkedIn company page: https://www.linkedin.com/company/columbus-street/

Columbus Street website: https://www.columbus-street.com/

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

Jami Wintz McKeon, Chair of Morgan, Lewis & Bockius LLP, joins Chris Batz and Howard Rosenberg to share her journey from associate to leading one of the world’s largest law firms. She reflects on the moments that shaped her path, including overseeing major integrations, heading the litigation practice, and ultimately stepping into the role of chair.

Jami talks about the personal side of leadership, carrying both the joys and hardships of colleagues, staying connected across a global partnership, and fostering a culture where collaboration comes before credit. She also discusses Morgan, Lewis & Bockius LLP’s approach to expansion, the role of client needs in shaping growth, and how the firm has embraced AI as an opportunity to strengthen client service.

Jami’s advice for fellow and future law firm leaders is straightforward: you have to love the firm, the people, and the responsibility itself. She shares how gratitude and family keep her grounded and why focusing on what’s working is as critical as addressing what isn’t. At its core, this episode is a look at what it means to lead with both strategy and heart in an industry defined by constant change.

Episode Breakdown:

00:00 Jami Wintz McKeon’s Path to Becoming a Law Firm Leader

02:54 Defining Career Turning Points at Morgan, Lewis & Bockius LLP

05:36 Leading with Connection and Caring for Firm Members

08:28 Morgan, Lewis & Bockius LLP Global Growth Strategy

13:40 Artificial Intelligence in Law Firms and Client Service

16:35 Advice for Current and Aspiring Law Firm Leaders

20:20 Staying Grounded Through Gratitude and Family

25:40 Inspiration and Leadership Philosophy

29:38 Looking Ahead: The Future of Law Firm Leadership

Links

Connect with Jami Wintz McKeon:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jami-wintz-mckeon-1b993746/

Web bio: https://www.morganlewis.com/bios/jmckeon

Connect with Howard Rosenberg:

LinkedIn profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hrosenberg/

Company web profile: https://www.baretzbrunelle.com/howard-rosenberg

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/

LinkedIn Company page: https://www.linkedin.com/company/columbus-street/

Columbus Street website: https://www.columbus-street.com/

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

Stephen Zubiago, CEO and Managing Partner of Nixon Peabody LLP, joins hosts Chris Batz and Howard Rosenberg to share what it takes to lead an AmLaw 100 firm through growth, competition, and change. He talks about how Nixon Peabody LLP aligns talent strategy with client needs, develops attorneys at every level, and builds a culture where collaboration and entrepreneurial drive matter as much as expertise. Their discussion explores the firm’s focus on industries like financial services, real estate and affordable housing, healthcare, and technology, and why being selective about expansion is key to long-term strength.

This episode also looks at the bigger shifts reshaping the legal profession, including the race for talent, pressure to scale, and the rise of private equity in professional services. Stephen explains why Nixon Peabody LLP has turned down outside capital, how flexible remote work policies have strengthened retention after COVID, and why artificial intelligence is changing the way law is practiced. At the core of his leadership approach is a simple principle: the firm moves forward when its people do.

Episode Breakdown:

00:00 Stephen Zubiago’s Career Journey

02:49 Vision for Growth at Nixon Peabody LLP

03:54 Attracting and Retaining Top Legal Talent

04:57 Key Practice Areas and Industry Focus

06:33 Balancing Firm Size with Culture and Market Position

11:17 What Differentiates Nixon Peabody LLP

14:01 Private Equity and the Future of Law Firms

16:01 The Partnership Model and Capital Needs

18:16 Managing Pricing Pressures in Legal Services

23:21 Navigating Challenges and Future Opportunities

24:01 Remote Work, Flexibility, and Retention

28:53 Innovation, Industry Focus, and AI in Legal Practice

Links

Connect with Stephen Zubiago:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephen-zubiago-3141815/

Website Bio: https://www.nixonpeabody.com/people/zubiago-stephen-d

Connect with Howard Rosenberg:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hrosenberg/

Company Web Profile: https://www.baretzbrunelle.com/howard-rosenberg

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/

LinkedIn Company Page: https://www.linkedin.com/company/columbus-street/

Columbus Street Website: https://www.columbus-street.com/

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

David Lat spent years climbing the legal ladder, clerking, working at Wachtell, joining the DOJ, before realizing that the most meaningful part of his career wasn’t going to happen in a courtroom. Joining Chris Batz and Howard Rosenberg, David talks through the decisions that shaped his path, from writing a cheeky anonymous blog about federal judges to launching “Above the Law” and building one of the most influential voices in legal media. He reflects on the pressure to follow prestige, the pull of creative work, and the unexpected ways his early writing opened doors he didn’t even know existed.

A serious case of COVID-19 in 2020 forced him to pause and take stock. What would it look like to return to writing on his own terms? What parts of the legal world still felt worth exploring? Those questions led to “Original Jurisdiction,” a Substack newsletter where David now shares sharp, thoughtful takes on the profession he never fully left. David also opens up about parenting two young kids with his husband Zach, navigating surrogacy, and finding ways to stay engaged without burning out. This episode is a look at what it means to shift gears without losing momentum, and how the best version of your work might be the one that feels the most like you.

Episode Breakdown:

00:00 Meet David Lat: From Wachtell to Legal Media

05:41 The Birth of Underneath Their Robes

06:59 Launching Above the Law

10:54 The Rise and Reach of Above the Law

13:25 Why David Stepped Away from Legal Journalism

16:23 A Life-Changing COVID-19 Experience

18:02 Starting Over with Original Jurisdiction

27:00 Legal Parenthood, Surrogacy, and Family Life

31:45 Candid Advice for Aspiring Writers and Lawyers

39:54 Big Law, AI, and the Future of the Profession

Links

Connect with David Lat:

Substack: https://davidlat.substack.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidlat/

Connect with Howard Rosenberg:

LinkedIn profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hrosenberg/

Company web profile: https://www.baretzbrunelle.com/howard-rosenberg

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/

LinkedIn Company page: https://www.linkedin.com/company/columbus-street/

Columbus Street website: https://www.columbus-street.com/

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

Titles don’t build trust, people do. And according to Rebecca Goodman-Stephens, that’s where real leadership begins. Rebecca is the CEO of Moses Singer, a New York law firm, but her story starts far from the legal world. She grew up across the UK, Switzerland, and France, studied clinical psychology, and built her career in consulting and public accounting before stepping into her current role. Along the way, she kept coming back to the same core skill: understanding people.

As she joins hosts Chris Batz and Howard Rosenberg, Rebecca shares how her background shaped her leadership style, and why listening, curiosity, and follow-through matter more than any formal authority. How do you get people to want to work with you? How does one shift a firm’s culture without blowing up what’s already working?

Rebecca also talks about her move into legal services and what surprised her most, like how much creativity and momentum she’s found in a space often viewed as slow to change. From evolving compensation structures to narrowing focus and driving intentional growth, she walks through the mindset behind her first two years as CEO.

This episode touches on private equity and what legal leaders can learn from the accounting world. Rebecca offers a clear message: don’t wait for outside investment to fix what you haven’t yet addressed internally.

Episode Breakdown:

00:00 Meet Rebecca Goodman-Stephens

04:04 How Clinical Psychology Shapes Rebecca’s Leadership Approach

08:02 Lessons from Consulting and Public Accounting

12:52 Why Rebecca Moved into Legal Services

15:50 What Surprised Rebecca About the Legal Industry

17:27 Leading Change as CEO at Moses Singer

21:13 Private Equity and the Future of Law Firms

24:23 Building a Resilient, Forward-Looking Organization

26:41 Launching a Business-Focused Law Firm Podcast

27:56 Personal Passions, Family Life, and New York Favorites

Links

Connect with Rebecca Goodman-Stephens:

LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rebecca-goodman-stephens-b702665/

Connect with Howard Rosenberg:

LinkedIn profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hrosenberg/

Company web profile: https://www.baretzbrunelle.com/howard-rosenberg

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/

LinkedIn Company page: https://www.linkedin.com/company/columbus-street/

Columbus Street website: https://www.columbus-street.com/

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

Succession only looks seamless from the outside. Yakub Hazzard shares what it really took to step into the chair role at Mitchell Silberberg & Knupp LLP, and why leadership transitions require more than just good timing.

How do you plan for change without disrupting what already works? Yakub walks through the nearly two-year succession planning process that prepared him to take over as chair, from building internal alignment to choosing the right leadership partner. He shares how the firm prioritized culture over convenience, and why that made all the difference.

Yakub also reflects on his journey from paralegal to partner, with a few unexpected stops along the way. Raised in a household of professional athletes, he learned early what discipline looks like up close. Time at NBCUniversal gave him a new perspective on what clients actually need from their lawyers, something he carries into every interaction today.

The episode also covers how the firm is growing with intention, where entertainment law is headed, and how AI is already reshaping the conversation. Yakub’s perspective is steady, strategic, and refreshingly grounded.

Episode Breakdown:

00:00 Yakub Hazzerd’s Background

04:46 Starting in Law: From Paralegal to Partner

07:06 Going In-House at NBCUniversal

09:00 Returning to MSK and the Shift Back to Private Practice

10:05 Succession Planning and Leadership Transition

13:30 Strategic Growth and Culture-Driven Hiring

18:35 Industry Disruption: Streaming, Gaming, and AI

27:34 Building High-Performing Teams

Links

Connect with Yakub Hazzard:

LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/yakub-hazzard-1469b113/

Firm Website Bio: https://www.msk.com/attorneys-Yakub_Hazzard

Connect with Howard Rosenberg:

LinkedIn profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hrosenberg/

Company web profile: https://www.baretzbrunelle.com/howard-rosenberg

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/

LinkedIn Company page: https://www.linkedin.com/company/columbus-street/

Columbus Street website: https://www.columbus-street.com/

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

Law firms that treat innovation like a team sport are the ones shaping the future of legal practice.

Chris Batz and Howard Rosenberg sit down with Jamie Drozd, the managing partner at Davis Wright Tremaine LLP, a corporate law firm known for leaning into technology in ways that actually stick. Jamie shares how her path, from commercial litigator to firm leadership, was shaped by early lessons in service, and how those same values now guide her in a role she never set out to pursue.

What does meaningful growth look like for a modern law firm? For Jamie, it’s not about size. It’s about deepening expertise in industries like technology, financial services, and media, while staying rooted in strong client relationships and a culture that prioritizes collaboration over ego.

Jamie also offers a candid look at how the firm is approaching technology, including artificial intelligence. From firm-wide hackathons to building custom AI tools that support legal writing and workflow, Davis Wright Tremaine LLP is taking a hands-on approach to innovation—one that empowers people at every level to think creatively about client service.

This episode leaves listeners with a clear vision: growth that reflects the firm’s values, a workplace that supports both ambition and well-being, and a culture where tech isn’t a trend but a mindset.

Episode Breakdown:

00:00 Introduction

02:09 Leadership Roles and Achievements

09:27 Firm’s Growth Strategy

13:19 Embracing AI and Technology

18:25 Internal Drive for Innovation

20:13 Geographic Expansion Considerations

22:52 Transition from Practicing Attorney to Managing Partner

25:57 Hybrid Work Environment and Engagement

30:50 Long-term Vision and Goals

Links

Connect with Jaime Drozd:

LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jaime-drozd-7592733/

Firm Website Bio: https://www.dwt.com/people/d/drozd-jaime

Connect with Howard Rosenberg:

LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hrosenberg/

Company web profile: https://www.baretzbrunelle.com/howard-rosenberg

Connect with Chris Batz:

LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/

LinkedIn Company page: https://www.linkedin.com/company/columbus-street/

Columbus Street website: https://www.columbus-street.com/

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm