Kate Theimer is a Project Partner with the Carlisle Indian School Digital Resource Center, focusing on cataloging photographs and authority control of student names. She also hosts the Carlisle Indian School Research podcast and is the author of A Very Correct Idea of Our School”: A Photographic History of the Carlisle Indian Industrial School (2018).

Since 2004, she. Kate, She has also given, Since 2004, sheKate is a Fellow of the Society of American Archivists and has written, edited, or contributed chapters to fourteen books about archives and numerous articles in archival journals. She has given plenary addresses at international archival conferences in New Zealand, Canada, Germany, and Norway and state and regional archival associations in the United States. She has participated in or moderated over twenty presentations at conferences.

Before starting her career as an independent writer and editor, she worked in the policy division of the National Archives and Records Administration. She holds a Master of Science in Information (Specialization in Archives and Records Management) from the University of Michigan and a Master of Arts (Art History & Archaeology) from the University of Maryland.

Carlisle Indian School students mentioned in the episode:

Bruce Patterson - https://carlisleindian.dickinson.edu/ci-search/bruce%20patterson

While Buffalo - https://carlisleindian.dickinson.edu/images/white-buffalo-c1882

1884 Student Body - https://carlisleindian.dickinson.edu/images/carlisle-indian-school-student-body-version-1-1884

Ice Skating - https://carlisleindian.dickinson.edu/ci-search/ice%20skating

John Leslie - https://carlisleindian.dickinson.edu/ci-search/john%20leslie

Recorded on February 12, 2025, in Carlisle, PA.

On November 17, 2024, in Carlisle, PA, the Carlisle Town Band performed a program featuring music connected to the Carlisle Indian Industrial School (operated from 1879 to 1918). As Band Director Dave Rohrer explains in this recording, the concert included four pieces—two originally played by the Carlisle Indian School Band and two composed by Dennison Wheelock, a former student and Band Master at the school.

• "In Storm and Sunshine" – March by John Clifford Heed, edited by Frederick Fennell
• "Raymond Overture" – From the opera Raymond, composed by Ambroise Thomas, arranged by V. F. Safranek
• "Dance of the Red Man" (Movement III of Aboriginal Suite) – Composed by Dennison Wheelock, arranged by David Kammerer
• "Carlisle Indian School March" – Composed by Dennison Wheelock, arranged by David Kammerer

For the entire concert program, visit the Carlisle Indian School Digital Resource Center.

About the Carlisle Indian School Band

The Carlisle Indian School Band was one of the most renowned and accomplished musical ensembles of its time, gaining national recognition for its exceptional performances. Established as part of the Carlisle Indian Industrial School’s broader assimilationist agenda, the band symbolized Indigenous resilience and musical excellence. It performed at major national events, including World Fairs, presidential inaugurations, and high-profile sporting events, showcasing the talents of Indigenous musicians to audiences across the country. Under the leadership of figures like Dennison Wheelock, the band not only entertained but also demonstrated the deep musical traditions and adaptability of Native students. Its legacy endures as a testament to the complex and often contradictory history—where music was both a tool of assimilation and a means of cultural expression and artistic achievement.

About the Carlisle Town Band

Originally founded in 1844 as the Carlisle Brass Band, the Carlisle Town Band has been performing continuously since 1900.

References & Additional Resources

In Lily Sweeney’s first talk, she references the poem "Alarum" from Amanda Gorman’s Call Us What We Carry.

In her second talk, Sweeney discusses Derek Baron’s article, "Opera and Land: Settler Colonialism and the Geopolitics of Music at the Carlisle Indian Industrial School." Baron, in turn, cites Dylan Robinson’s book, Hungry Listening: Resonant Theory for Indigenous Sound Studies, regarding how music functions as a legal and historical tool for Indigenous communities.

Sweeney also references Lawrence Hauptman’s chapter, "From Carlisle to Carnegie Hall: The Musical Career of Dennison Wheelock," from the book The Oneida Indians in the Age of Allotment, 1860-1920.

Audio Recording

Dr. Amanda Cheromiah (Laguna Pueblo) recorded the concert using the Voice Memos app on her iPhone.

Barbara Landis is the retired Carlisle Indian Industrial School Archives and Library Specialist for the Cumberland County Historical Society in Carlisle, Pennsylvania. She has worked closely with individuals and nations to develop biographical and research resources forwww.CarlisleIndianSchool.org. Landis encourages those studying Carlisle to acknowledge descendants' complex and varied responses to this failed educational experiment. Through her work, she remains committed to honoring the experiences of Carlisle Indian School students and their descendants—celebrating those who thrived, mourning those who suffered, and recognizing the lasting impact of their stories. Landis remains an active member of the Carlisle community and beyond, continuing her dedication to education, remembrance, and engagement with Carlisle Indian School history.

Recorded on January 29, 2025, in Carlisle, PA.

Jim Gerencser is the Associate Dean for Archives and Special Collections at Dickinson College in Carlisle, PA and also Director of the Carlisle Indian School Digital Resource Center. He holds an MLS from the University of Pittsburgh and an MA in History from Shippensburg University. With 25 years of experience managing digital projects at Dickinson, Jim is focused on making primary sources easily discoverable and accessible to wide audiences while still maintaining their original context. He is strongly committed to public service and outreach, and he has been particularly active over the past ten years with sharing information about the importance of the Carlisle Indian School records from the U.S. National Archives and elsewhere that had, for nearly a hundred years, been largely hidden and difficult to access.

Recorded on January 14, 2025 in Carlisle, PA

In December 2024, Dr. Ka-ow-dthu-ee (Amanda Cheromiah) and Chief Phillip Whiteman, Jr., both descendants of the Carlisle Indian School, walk the living grounds of the former Carlisle Indian Industrial School. What they encounter is not a memory of the past but the undeniable presence of Ancestors whose voices, energy, and strength continue to shape the world today.

As they walk, they give an offering to Abraham Lincoln, a Carlisle student and Chief Whiteman's relative, honoring his life and the resilience of all those who endure the school’s legacy. From the echoes of songs carried by the wind to moments of supernatural clarity, their journey reveals the vibrant, ongoing connection between the past and present.

Song Credit: Let Em Go by Supaman

Recorded December 3, 2024 in Carlisle, PA.

In this episode, Dr. Cheromiah and Chief Whiteman reflect on how these encounters reaffirm the power of Indigenous presence and illuminate the sacred threads that bind us across generations. Their story is one of reverence, connection, and a future informed by the unbroken spirit of Native peoples.

Gerilyn is the Great Granddaughter of Indian Boarding School Survivor, Tom Torlino. Torlino’s iconic image is a widely used photograph from a 1880’s postcard from the Carlisle Indian Industrial School in Pennsylvania. Tom Torlino returned to New Mexico and worked as a Navajo Scout/Interpreter and Medicine Man. Gerilyn has independently researched and has documented the Torlino/Tolino family history for the past few years. Her initial Family research has been presented at the National Native American Boarding School Healing Coalition conference and to the Cumberland County Historical Society of Pennsylvania.

As a Diné Social Worker, Gerilyn received her degree from NM Highlands University. She is a former Indian Health Services (IHS) Scholarship recipient. Gerilyn started out as a Youth Counselor at the Coyote Canyon Chapter House. Her experience encompasses working on the Navajo Nation and the Albuquerque Metro Area. As a Social Worker whose 25 year career has spanned in the fields of Early Childhood Intervention, Developmental Disabilities, Foster Care/Residential Treatment, Domestic Violence and Mental/Behavioral Health Programs. She has been recognized as a Distinguished Healthcare Worker at UNM Hospitals-Children’s Psychiatric Center. Gerilyn now takes her skill set to the State of New Mexico-Fostering Connections Program working with youth transitioning out of Foster Care.

Gerilyn comes from a long line of Medicine People/Healers in the Dine’ Community. Gerilyn in part was raised by her Paternal Grandparents. Her Grandmother, Isabel Silversmith Tolino was an Herbalist and Grandfather, Tom C. Tolino a Hand Trembler. Her Father, Gilbert worked as an IHS Medical Interpreter alongside Field Health Nurse visiting Families in the remote areas of the Chuska Mountain range in New Mexico. Maternal Great Grandfather was Hatalli, Amos Denetdeal Begay.

Gerilyn learned from an early age the importance of the Dine’ Language and Traditional Healing Philosophy. She utilizes that knowledge in working with and supporting Families of all cultural backgrounds today.

Recorded on December 13, 2024

References

Shan Goshorn (Eastern Band of Cherokee) - https://www.shangoshorn.net/

Images of Slaves Are Property of Harvard, Not a Descendant, Judge Rules - New York Times

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/04/us/harvard-slave-photos-renty.html

The History of Henrietta Lacks - Johns Hopkins Medicine https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/henrietta-lacks

Joannie Marie Suina (Pueblo de Cochiti), Ed. D, earned a Doctorate of Education in Educational Leadership from the University of Washington in 2023. Her academic pursuits are deeply rooted in uplifting the ongoing healing endeavors spearheaded by Native American communities.

Suina's educational background is extensive, reflecting her commitment to humanities and global advocacy. She holds a Bachelor of Arts in Native American Studies and a Master of Jurisprudence in Indian Law. Her interdisciplinary approach incorporates Indigenous storytelling, rematriation, critical literacies, qualitative research methodologies, and community praxis.

As a mother of four children, she embodies her values both personally and professionally. In addition to her scholarly endeavors, Suina serves as the Director of Communications at the National Native American Boarding School Healing Coalition. Through her role, she contributes to the organization's mission of addressing the historical trauma inflicted upon Native American communities by Federal Indian Policy. Dr. Hathawitz serves on the Center for the Futures of Native Peoples Advisory Board.

Song Credit: Prayer Loop Song by Supaman

Recorded on December 11, 2024

Dr. Amanda Cheromiah reflects on her experience touring the historic grounds of the former Carlisle Indian Industrial School, this time learning and connecting in a way she never has before. Walking the same paths her Relatives once walked while the school was in operation, she is joined by her mentors, Jim Gerencser and Kate Theimer, whose dedication to archiving and preserving the stories of Carlisle students has shed light on generations of history. She explores the stories held in this space, honoring the endurance and legacy of those who came before.

Note: Please be advised that this episode includes discussions about the Carlisle Barracks Post Cemetery and its historical significance, which may be sensitive for some listeners.

This episode was originally recorded on July 18, 2024, in Carlisle, PA, and released on December 2, 2024.