https://page2pod.com - In this episode of the Page 2 Podcast, Jon Clark and Joe DeVita welcome back Kevin Indig for a deep dive into the changing SEO landscape in 2025. From AI overviews reshaping Google search to new content strategies, Kevin shares actionable insights for brands navigating the future of organic growth.

Kevin breaks down his groundbreaking studies on e-commerce SERPs, usability in AI-driven search, and the evolution of trust in online content. Whether you’re a marketer, SEO pro, or brand leader, this episode gives you the frameworks and tactics you need to adapt in an AI-first search world.

Whether you're an SEO, marketer, or brand strategist, this is a must-watch to future-proof your search strategy as we head into 2025.

☕ In This Episode (Key Takeaways):
• Kevin’s coffee ritual and why rituals set the stage for great work
• The growth of Growth Memo and moving into video-first content
• Insights from analyzing 35,000+ queries on SERP features in e-commerce
• How AI overviews are replacing product grids in Google Search
• Why image carousels dominate and what that means for shopping discovery
• Strategies for Black Friday / Cyber Monday campaigns in an AI-driven SERP
• Key findings from Kevin’s LLM & chatbot study (Wikipedia, Reddit, LinkedIn, YouTube as sources)
• Should brands block AI crawlers? The economics of content in 2025
• Content simplicity, structure, and trust signals that matter most now
• Link building’s shifting role — mentions vs. backlinks in the AI search era
• New SEO KPIs: influence, share of voice, and brand trust over clicks
• Predictions on what Google Search will look like in the next 12–24 months

This episode arms you with the insights you need to rethink SEO strategy for the AI era.

✅ Subscribe to the Page 2 Podcast for more expert conversations on SEO, marketing, and growth.
💬 Comment below: How are you adapting your SEO strategy for AI-driven search?

🔗 Links & References from the Episode
• Kevin Indig on Linkedin
• Growth Memo Newsletter
• AI Overviews Usability Study
• Google E-commerce SERP Features 2025 vs. 2024
• LLMs and Content Structure
• Measurement Shifts

Sponsored by Moving Traffic Media

Follow the Page 2 Podcast

• Page 2 Podcast on Youtube
• Page 2 Podcast on Linkedin
• Page 2 Podcast on Facebook

Follow Jon Clark

• Jon Clark on Bluesky
• Jon Clark on Linkedin

https://page2pod.com - In this episode of the Page 2 Podcast, we site down with Michelle Morgan, co-founder of Paid Media Pros and one of the most respected voices in PPC, to talk about how paid media actually works for B2B.

Michelle dives deep into the evolving landscape of Google Ads, LinkedIn, YouTube, Facebook, and more, sharing practical strategies for marketers navigating automation, AI, and ad fatigue.

From performance-max campaigns to CRM integrations, she shares how to build scalable, conversion-focused funnels that move beyond "just check the AI box" and instead focus on clarity, intent, and control. Whether you're in eCommerce or B2B SaaS, this is your playbook for paid media that delivers.

📊 In This Episode

• How Michelle grew Paid Media Pros into a 45K+ subscriber YouTube channel
• Why YouTube ads do work for B2B—and how to sequence them effectively
• Tactical retargeting strategies across platforms
• The truth about automation and why “just checking the AI box” isn’t enough
• Using CRM data to train ad algorithms for better lead quality
• Why most B2B landing pages still fail—Michelle's no-BS advice
• When to use Performance Max (and how to avoid spam leads)
• LinkedIn’s ad ecosystem: document ads, conversation ads, and CEO thought leadership
• Microsoft Ads vs. Google Ads: where’s the real value?
• Facebook Ads fragility—how to scale spend without tanking performance
• Michelle’s take on TikTok vs YouTube Shorts for discovery
• The one thing she’d tell her younger PPC self (and a hilarious golf question to close)

🎧 This episode is your crash course in smart, no-fluff paid media that scales.

🔔 Subscribe to catch future episodes with top voices in SEO, PPC, and digital strategy.
💬 Comment below: What’s your biggest challenge with paid media right now?

🔗 Links and Resources

• Michelle Morgan on Linkedin
• Paid Media Pros YouTube Channel
• Paid Media Pros Official Site

Sponsored by Moving Traffic Media

Follow the Page 2 Podcast

• Page 2 Podcast on Youtube
• Page 2 Podcast on Linkedin
• Page 2 Podcast on Facebook

Follow Jon Clark

• Jon Clark on Bluesky
• Jon Clark on Linkedin

https://page2pod.com - In this powerhouse episode of the Page 2 Podcast, Luigi Ferguson, who leads holistic search at Intuit (QuickBooks), joins Jon and Joe to break down the future of search. It’s no longer SEO or SEM—it’s all about playing on the same battlefield. Luigi explains why collaboration between paid and organic teams is no longer optional and how AI is reshaping the rules.

From AI Max and automation to fighting click fraud, affiliate strategy, and rethinking content for AI Overviews, Luigi shares hard-earned wisdom from his time at McAfee, Yahoo, Critio, and now Intuit. If you’re in search marketing or performance strategy, this is a must-listen.

📊 Whether you're struggling with attribution, planning content for LLMs, or optimizing shopping feeds, this episode gives you tools and perspectives that apply today—and tomorrow.

📌 In This Episode (🔍)
• The “one battlefield” mindset: paid vs organic is an illusion
• How to align SEO & SEM teams—and why you must
• AI Max, automation & the death of granular control
• Fighting fraud and low-quality leads in PMax campaigns
• How to rethink ROI in a post-click world
• Planning content for AI Overviews and impression-heavy SERPs
• Using call center data to power high-impact content
• Why knowing your _non_-customer matters too
• Strategies for affiliate monitoring and brand term protection
• Optimizing shopping feeds with real search behavior in mind
• Tentpole marketing: balancing long-term planning with war room agility
• Predictions on the future of Google’s SERP with AI front and center

This episode is packed with insights to level up your marketing strategy and prep for the fast-evolving world of search. Whether you're scaling B2B or battling click fraud, this convo will reshape how you think about search.

🎧 Don’t miss it!

👍 Subscribe for more insights on search, AI, and digital marketing strategy

💬 What’s your take on the AI vs human content debate? Drop your thoughts in the comments!

🔗 Links and Resources
• Luigi Ferguson on Linkedin
• Impact of Google Map Pack ads
• ChatGPT disrupting Chegg

Sponsored by Moving Traffic Media

Follow the Page 2 Podcast

• Page 2 Podcast on Youtube
• Page 2 Podcast on Linkedin
• Page 2 Podcast on Facebook

Follow Jon Clark

• Jon Clark on Bluesky
• Jon Clark on Linkedin

https://page2pod.com - What happens when the gatekeepers of search stop sending traffic, but still take the content? In this milestone Episode 90, Marshall Simmonds (Defined Media Group) joins us to trace SEO’s journey from white-text-on-white-backgrounds to log-file analysis, AIO, and LLM.txt—plus what publishers must do right now. He even shares the wild story of spinning up a mirror test server so Google (and others) could pound on About.com to refine their crawlers.

We dig into why watching server logs matters more than ever, how “dark traffic” is back, and why author authority and structured content still win—despite shifting consumption and murky attribution in AI-assisted search.

Marshall also takes us behind the scenes on unlocking The New York Times archive (and why it crushed for traffic and revenue), plus a pragmatic take on AIO monetization, blocking AI training vs. real-time access, and the early but evolving role of LLM.txt.

🧠 In This Episode:
• The About.com “test server” era: letting engines crawl a mirror site to improve their bots—what Marshall learned by “watching the watchers.”
• Why log files are mission-critical again as dark traffic surges and LLM crawlers multiply.
• Enterprise-grade log tooling & options: Sitebulb, Screaming Frog, Splunk—what to use when.
• Crawl budget signals hiding in plain sight: the Search Console “Crawl stats” report.
• NYT archive strategy: opening history for scale, membership, and revenue (and why it worked).
• E-E-A-T before the acronym: building human authority into content and authorship.
• LLM.txt today: yes, it’s crawled; no, standards aren’t settled; how teams are exposing it.
• AIO reality check: impressions up, clicks down; what’s converting (and why patience pays).
• Blocking AI training vs. real-time use: robots.txt limits, legal gray zones, and first-line defenses.
• Holistic marketing > channel silos: brand, email, social, search, Discover—working together.

If you've ever wondered where SEO has been and where it's headed, this conversation with Marshall Simmonds is essential listening.

📌 Subscribe for more insightful episodes on SEO, AI, and digital strategy.
💬 Comment below: How are you adapting your SEO strategy in the age of AI and dark traffic?

🔗 Links & Resources Mentioned
• Marshall Simmonds LinkedIn
• Defined Media Official Site
• Page 2 Podcast Noah Learner episode

Sponsored by Moving Traffic Media

Follow the Page 2 Podcast

• Page 2 Podcast on Youtube
• Page 2 Podcast on Linkedin
• Page 2 Podcast on Facebook

Follow Jon Clark

• Jon Clark on Bluesky
• Jon Clark on Linkedin

https://page2pod.com - What does it take to run a multi-brand content machine—and decide what not to publish? Ryan McGonagill, VP of Content at Centerfield, breaks down how his team powers 10+ owned brands like business.com and security.org while keeping content simple, useful, and relentlessly user-first. We dig into why personalization beats flashy interactives, and how to design for real decisions—not vanity metrics.

You’ll hear the refresh system that keeps nothing older than a year (and why ISP deal pages may need updates every ~2 weeks), plus how seasonality (think moving season) reshapes the calendar. Ryan also unpacks verticalized expertise, the team’s “gold standard” quality bar, and why user value beats dwell-time games every time.

On the PR side, we talk about crafting hooks that surprise and earn coverage, the DEI pronoun study that drew massive press (and even an Elon Musk reply), and how Ryan thinks about links vs. referral traffic. We close with a pragmatic take on AI, where human judgment is non-negotiable and LLMs assist without replacing expertise.

Finally, Ryan shares why content structure may matter even more as AI overviews evolve—and the single best link he’s ever earned.

🧠 In This Episode
• Centerfield’s model: owning acquisition end-to-end and publishing across ~10 brands, from business.com to security.org.
• Personalization > “cool” interactives: give users simple, relevant tools (even a basic calculator).
• “User first” beats dwell-time hacks—ship what helps people decide, not what inflates metrics.
• The refresh playbook: nothing older than a year; ISP pages reviewed ~biweekly; plan around seasonality (e.g., moving May–Sep).
• Verticalized writers + editors and a non-negotiable “gold standard” (third-party + firsthand expertise, real photos).
• How to prioritize: fortify winners before chasing breadth; align SEO (traffic/rank) with content’s profit focus.
• PR that lands: lead with surprising data and media-worthy angles; why links > referral traffic from research.
• AI in the workflow: frequent LLM upgrades, but keep human touchpoints for judgment, reviews, and accuracy.

This episode is a tactical blueprint for scaling content that _actually helps people decide_—and earns the kind of links and trust that last.

📢 Subscribe for more expert insights on content marketing and SEO!
💬 Comment below: What's your biggest challenge with content personalization or AI in your workflow?

🔗 Websites & Brands:

• Centerfield Official Site
• Ryan on LinkedIn

🧪 Notable Studies/Articles Referenced:

• DEI Pronoun Study – A viral study Ryan produced that got national media coverage (including a comment from Elon Musk).
• Marketing Interns Study on Job Market – Innovative research using interns to analyze the job market.
• LLM Comparison Article on Business.com – Compared outputs from various AI models for quality.

Sponsored by Moving Traffic Media

Follow the Page 2 Podcast

• Page 2 Podcast on Youtube
• Page 2 Podcast on Linkedin
• Page 2 Podcast on Facebook

Follow Jon Clark

• Jon Clark on Bluesky
• Jon Clark on Linkedin

https://page2pod.com - Most marketers are only using 20% of Google Analytics 4’s capabilities — and it’s costing them big. In this episode of the Page 2 Podcast, we sit down with Brie Anderson, founder of Beast Analytics and one of the earliest voices bringing clarity to the chaotic transition from Universal Analytics to GA4.

Brie shares why small tracking errors can lead to massive strategic blind spots, how to fix bad data before it misleads you, and why GA4’s Advertising tab is a goldmine — even if you never run ads. She also breaks down her BEAST Framework, revealing exactly how to audit, analyze, and act on your data for real business growth.

Whether you’re an SEO, media buyer, or marketing strategist, this conversation is packed with actionable insights to make your analytics truly accessible and actionable.

📊 In This Episode:
• Why most marketers only tap into a fraction of GA4’s potential
• The high cost of bad data — and how to prevent it
• Brie’s BEAST Framework for reliable, strategic analytics
• Common GA4 migration mistakes (and how to fix them)
• Unlocking the hidden power of GA4’s Advertising tab
• How to spot and leverage multi-touch attribution data
• Tips for integrating Google Search Console with GA4
• Future trends in AI-driven analytics (and their pitfalls)

Brie delivers a masterclass in making your marketing data work harder for you — with a healthy dose of real talk about the industry’s blind spots.

Subscribe to never miss a deep dive into the tools, tactics, and trends shaping digital marketing.

💬 Comment below: What’s the most valuable insight you’ve learned from your analytics data lately?

🔗 Links & Resources Mentioned
• Brie Anderson on LinkedIn
• Brie Anderson on YouTube
• Beast Analytics Official Site

Sponsored by Moving Traffic Media

Follow the Page 2 Podcast

• Page 2 Podcast on Youtube
• Page 2 Podcast on Linkedin
• Page 2 Podcast on Facebook

Follow Jon Clark

• Jon Clark on Bluesky
• Jon Clark on Linkedin

https://page2pod.com - Tyson Stockton, Co-founder & COO of Previsible.io, unpacks the challenges and strategies behind merging two distinct SEO agencies: Previsible.io and Internet Marketing Ninjas.

Tyson shares candid insights about integrating teams, managing culture, and redefining roles while preserving legacy. We also explore how AI is reshaping the SEO industry, driving a renaissance in link building and authority building strategies.

🧩 In This Episode:
• Navigating the complex integration of two SEO agencies
• The importance of cultural fit and open communication
• Strategic insights on preserving legacy and heritage post-merger
• Adapting SEO services to remain relevant amidst AI evolution
• How link building is evolving in the AI era
• Developing effective career paths within SEO teams

Tyson provides valuable lessons for agency owners and SEO professionals navigating mergers, acquisitions, and evolving search landscapes.

🔗 Links & Resources Mentioned
• Tyson Stockton LinkedIn
• Internet Marketing Ninjas
• Previsible.io
• Voice of Search Podcast
• 2025 SEO Jobs Report
• 2025 SEO Compensation Trends
• Page 2 Podcast Nick LeRoy episode

🔔 Subscribe for more expert insights into SEO strategies and agency management
💬 Comment below with your experiences or questions about merging SEO teams or adapting to AI-driven SEO.

Sponsored by Moving Traffic Media

Follow the Page 2 Podcast

• Page 2 Podcast on Youtube
• Page 2 Podcast on Linkedin
• Page 2 Podcast on Facebook

Follow Jon Clark

• Jon Clark on Bluesky
• Jon Clark on Linkedin

https://page2pod.com - In this episode of the Page 2 Podcast, Jon Clark welcomes Lou Cohen, Chief Digital Officer at EY Americas, for a candid and deeply insightful conversation. From his roots as a comic book store founder to leading digital strategy at one of the world’s largest consulting firms, Lou shares hard-earned wisdom on staying ahead in a rapidly evolving marketing landscape.

They dive deep into how EY is tackling the rise of generative AI, why “geo” (Generative Engine Optimization) is reshaping SEO as we know it, and how platforms like Reddit and Snapchat are influencing content strategies. With his dual role as an educator and executive, Lou offers unique perspective on the skills marketers need in today’s world—and why understanding consumer behavior still trumps any algorithm.

Don’t miss this powerful blend of mentorship, strategy, and foresight from one of digital marketing’s sharpest minds.

📚 In This Episode
• How Lou transitioned from comic book entrepreneur to Chief Digital Officer at EY
• EY's approach to AI discoverability and content sourcing for LLMs
• The new era of SEO: what “geo” really means and why it matters
• Why Reddit is critical to EY’s future marketing strategies
• How teaching keeps Lou ahead of industry trends
• Balancing brand compliance with authentic engagement on niche platforms
• Strategies behind award-winning content partnerships with Reuters and CNBC
• Career advice for marketers in a post-AI world
• Whether college still matters in the age of AI
• Lessons from EY’s global website migration effort

Lou brings a refreshing honesty to leadership, marketing, and mentorship. This episode is a must-listen for anyone navigating the future of digital.

📢 Subscribe to get expert insights from top marketing leaders: https://open.spotify.com/show/4mMTmBqGA8VpGGL7ItUtGk?si=5f839019f61b40e7
💬 Comment below: What platforms or strategies are you using to stay ahead of the AI curve?

Sponsored by Moving Traffic Media (https://www.movingtrafficmedia.com)

🔗 Links & Resources Mentioned
• EY: https://www.ey.com/
• Lou Cohen on Linkedin

Sponsored by Moving Traffic Media

Follow the Page 2 Podcast

• Page 2 Podcast on Youtube
• Page 2 Podcast on Linkedin
• Page 2 Podcast on Facebook

Follow Jon Clark

• Jon Clark on Bluesky
• Jon Clark on Linkedin