Épisodes

  • The gift of deep listening, with Parker J. Palmer

    The gift of deep listening, with Parker J. Palmer
    Feb 2 2026
    When Parker J. Palmer was a young man, he became aware of a growing unrest within him. Guided by his inner voice, he turned down prestigious university jobs and instead took a challenging, unstable job in community organizing. Parker then followed his north star again – and moved with his family to live in a radically equal Quaker community for over a decade.  Parker is an activist and author who has written 10 incredibly influential books – including Let Your Life Speak. He founded the Center for Courage & Renewal, which supports leadership, vocation, and community formation. And in 2021, the Freedom of Spirit Fund gave him their Lifetime Achievement Award in honor of work that promotes and protects spiritual freedom. Parker believes that in this moment of instability, finding our internal grounding is more important than ever – and he shares a beautiful ‘circle of trust’ practice for listening deeply to others. You’ll learn how others are so crucial to tuning into your true inner voice - and how listening to ourselves can then move us out into the wider world. Links and resources: About Parker J. Palmer Parker’s 10 published books About the Center for Courage & Renewal Living the Questions - Parker J. Palmer’s Substack The Growing Edge, Parker’s project with Carrie Newcomer Parker’s collected On Being columns With & For is a podcast of the Thrive Center, an applied research center that exists to catalyze a movement of human thriving, with and for others through spiritual health. Learn more at thethrivecenter.org. Follow us on Instagram @thrivecenter Follow us on LinkedIn @thethrivecenter Dr. Pamela Ebstyne King hosts With & For, and is the Executive Director of the Thrive Center and the Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at the School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy at Fuller Seminary. Follow her @drpamking. About With & For Host: Pam King Senior Director and Producer: Jill Westbrook Operations Manager: Lauren Kim Social Media & Graphic Designer: Wren Juergensen Senior Producer: Clare Wiley Executive Producer: Jakob Lewis Produced by Great Feeling Studios Special thanks to the team at Fuller Studio and Fuller Seminary’s School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. The podcast was made possible through the support from the John Templeton Foundation. The opinions expressed in this publication are those of the host and guests, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the John Templeton Foundation.
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    55 min
  • How to show yourself compassion, with Dr. Kristin Neff

    How to show yourself compassion, with Dr. Kristin Neff
    Jan 26 2026
    One of the most persistent myths about self-compassion is that it’s selfish. But in reality, self-compassion connects us to the rest of humanity – and it’s a critical pathway to thriving. Dr. Kristin Neff is a pioneer in the study of self-compassion. As Associate Professor of Educational Psychology at the University of Texas and founding director of the Self-Compassion Institute, Kristin has spent decades researching the mind-altering power of self-compassion. Kristin's findings show that kindness is a better motivator than criticism, and she breaks down how self-compassion connects to healthy spirituality. Kristin also talks openly about how self-compassion helped her face challenges through her divorce and in parenting her son, who’s on the autism spectrum.  You will walk away from this episode with a three-step plan for self-compassion - and a simple practice if you don’t know where to get started. Links and resources The Self-Compassion Institute Guided practices About Dr. Kristin Neff With & For is a podcast of the Thrive Center, an applied research center that exists to catalyze a movement of human thriving, with and for others through spiritual health. Learn more at thethrivecenter.org. Follow us on Instagram @thrivecenter Follow us on LinkedIn @thethrivecenter Dr. Pamela Ebstyne King hosts With & For, and is the Executive Director of the Thrive Center and the Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at the School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy at Fuller Seminary. Follow her @drpamking. About With & For Host: Pam King Senior Director and Producer: Jill Westbrook Operations Manager: Lauren Kim Social Media & Graphic Designer: Wren Juergensen Senior Producer: Clare Wiley Executive Producer: Jakob Lewis Produced by Great Feeling Studios Special thanks to the team at Fuller Studio and Fuller Seminary’s School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. The podcast was made possible through the support from the John Templeton Foundation. The opinions expressed in this publication are those of the host and guests, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the John Templeton Foundation.
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    55 min
  • With and For Returns for Season 3

    With and For Returns for Season 3
    Jan 12 2026
    With & For is back with a brand new season exploring spiritual health. What is healthy  spirituality exactly, and how does it help us thrive? How do spiritual practices connect us to others? And what does it mean to have a calling in life?  We have some incredible guests this season – leading thinkers from across faith, art and psychology – like author activist Parker Palmer, self-compassion pioneer Kristin Neff, developmental scientist Richard Lerner and How God Works host David DeSteno. Hosted by development psychologist, ordained minister and professor Dr. Pam King,  With & For bridges psychology and spiritual wisdom to help you thrive.  Season three launches January 26th. The Thrive Center is an applied research center that exists to catalyze a movement of human thriving, with and for others through spiritual health. Learn more at thethrivecenter.org. Follow us on Instagram @thrivecenter Follow us on LinkedIn @thethrivecenter Dr. Pamela Ebstyne King is the Executive Director of the Thrive Center and the Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at the School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy at Fuller Seminary. Follow her @drpamking. About With and For Host: Pam King Senior Director and Producer: Jill Westbrook Operations Manager: Lauren Kim Social Media & Graphic Designer: Wren Juergensen Senior Producer: Clare Wiley Executive Producer: Jakob Lewis Produced by Great Feeling Studios Special thanks to the team at Fuller Studio and Fuller Seminary’s School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. The podcast was made possible through the support from the John Templeton Foundation. The opinions expressed in this publication are those of the host and guests, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the John Templeton Foundation.
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    2 min
  • What is Thriving? – Season 2 Wrap Up with Dr. Pam King

    What is Thriving? – Season 2 Wrap Up with Dr. Pam King
    Jul 21 2025
    Thriving is a relational journey that involves being deeply connected to others and the community. The importance of a "true north" and discerning what is most sacred to orient one's life. Understanding thriving as accepting a truer story of yourself, others, and the world. Engaging in mindset and behavior changes for flourishing, with self-compassion. Thriving as having resources built up in various domains (personal, family, social) to buffer from crisis. The concept of thriving begins with the love of God and love of neighbor. The alignment of purpose and practice is central to thriving, regardless of changes over time. Recognizing ourselves as "God's masterpiece" and finding joy and contentment in that. Thriving as a dynamic, meaningful engagement in purposeful living, adapting to changing contexts. The idea that one can be struggling or even mentally ill and still be thriving is a "both/and" process. Thriving as an internal state and relational reality marked by an open heart and meaningful relationships, even on a stressful day. The journey of thriving involves self-discovery and healing, acknowledging both strengths and weaknesses. Being "habituated to doing good" and demonstrating one's "best self" in relationships. Dr. Pam King’s Key Takeaways Thriving is relational and happens when we are deeply connected to other people, whether that be through our intimate relationships or our broader community. Thriving involves telling a truer story about life, that there is both beauty and brokenness. Thriving involves understanding who we are as God's masterpieces, that we all have strengths, and we all can thrive and find life in our weaknesses. Thriving involves discovering and pursuing what gets you up in the morning – your true north, what is most sacred to you. Thriving involves self-discovery and healing, which might mean being softer with ourselves so that we can find internal ease. About the Thrive Center Learn more at thethrivecenter.org. Follow us on Instagram @thrivecenter Follow us on X @thrivecenter Follow us on LinkedIn @thethrivecenter About Dr. Pam King Dr. Pam King is Executive Director the Thrive Center and is Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at Fuller School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. Follow her @drpamking. About With & For Host: Pam King Senior Director and Producer: Jill Westbrook Operations Manager: Lauren Kim Social Media Graphic Designer: Wren Juergensen Special thanks to the team at Fuller Studio and the Fuller School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy.
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    17 min
  • The Unexpected Benefits of Play, with Dr. Tina Payne Bryson

    The Unexpected Benefits of Play, with Dr. Tina Payne Bryson
    Jul 7 2025
    Episode Highlights "When we laugh, when we are sitting in delight, it expands–It not only keeps us in our window of tolerance, but it expands our window of tolerance." "We also know that play is just a huge protective factor. It allows people to process their experiences, but also build skills for the future." "Play is really about doing something for the enjoyment of it, for no other reason, but for the enjoyment." "The more stress you have, the more play you need." "To hold multiple emotions that more than one thing was true... gives us tremendous capacity to be resilient and have more mental and cognitive, flexibility as well as emotional flexibility." Helpful Links and Resources Books by Dr. Tina Bryson The Way of Play (Tina’s latest book!) The Whole-Brain Child No-Drama Discipline The Yes Brain The Power of Showing Up Follow Tina Bryson: TinaBryson.com Instagram X The Center for Connection Show Notes The importance of play for human development across the lifespan, noting that even mammals engage in it. How play keeps us in receptive, thriving states and expands our window of tolerance for frustration and discomfort. The crucial relationship between stress and play: the more stress in our lives, the more we need play to counterbalance it. The distinction between free unstructured play for children and dyadic, child-led relational play. Addressing common parental challenges with play, such as not knowing how, finding it boring, or children's resistance. Introduction to Tina's new book, “The Way of Play,” co-authored with Georgie Wisen-Vincent, which offers seven strategies for parents to engage in child-led play for brain integration and relationship building. Defining play for adults: doing something purely for enjoyment, not productivity (e.g., pickleball, running, decorating, thrifting, watching "trashy TV"). The significance of being playful in our manner – adding silliness, lightness, and sharing funny videos for shared laughter and connection. How play serves as a powerful tool for emotional regulation and processing, allowing individuals to "try on" difficult emotions in a safe, controlled context. The capacity to hold multiple emotions simultaneously (e.g., discomfort and fun), fostering resilience and mental/emotional flexibility. The impact of even "little moments" of play in creating significant connections, especially after separations. The concept of mutual delight in play and the importance of following what lights up both individuals. Tina's personal insights into her own playful activities, including her love for organizing and systematic approaches. Dr. Jill Westbrook’s Key Takeaways Play is important throughout our life spans because the positive emotions it elicits expand what Tina calls our window of tolerance. We get better at avoiding the rigidity and chaos that can plague our relationships. The more stressful our lives are, the more we need to play. Having playfulness in life is as important as actually playing. So, adding play to your life doesn't mean that you have to schedule any particular time for play. Laughing, sharing funny videos, lightening things up a bit are all part of play. Playing with children is vital for their development, and for those of us with young people in our lives, finding time to do something fun with them helps us all thrive. Tina's new book “The Way of Play” offers practical advice and teaches strategies so that all of us can get more comfortable playing. About the Thrive Center Learn more at thethrivecenter.org. Follow us on Instagram @thrivecenter Follow us on X @thrivecenter Follow us on LinkedIn @thethrivecenter About Dr. Pam King Dr. Pam King is Executive Director the Thrive Center and is Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at Fuller School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. Follow her @drpamking. About With & For Host: Pam King Senior Director and Producer: Jill Westbrook Operations Manager: Lauren Kim Social Media Graphic Designer: Wren Juergensen Special thanks to the team at Fuller Studio and the Fuller School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy.
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    29 min
  • Self-Actualization and Living Your Potential, with Dr. Scott Barry Kaufman

    Self-Actualization and Living Your Potential, with Dr. Scott Barry Kaufman
    Jun 23 2025
    How can we grow into our full potential?—living up to what we know is the best version of ourselves, actualizing our goals, and expressing our deepest purpose in a life of impact and love? Grounded in cognitive science and psychology, best-selling author, podcaster, educator and researcher Scott Barry Kaufman believes that we need to redefine our understanding of greatness and excellence to include our whole selves—our emotions, dreams, failures, and gifts—all to live a life that is fully human, fully yourself. In this conversation with Scott Barry Kaufman, we discuss: Education and formation for the whole person, not just our intellect but our bodies, emotions, and spirituality Maslow’s hierarchy of needs and the journey that leads to self-actualization The difference it makes to see the world through growth rather than our deficiencies What it means to thrive even in the midst of mental illness The horizontal dimensions of transcendence And how to connect and align with your deepest values Episode Highlights “You can be mentally ill and thriving.” “Self-actualization is bringing your whole self to the table—not just one part of you.” “Real transcendence is about becoming one with the world—not being more enlightened than others.” “People are far more likely to demand respect than to give it.” “Only you can walk the path.” Helpful Links and Resources Visit scottbarrykaufman.com The Psychology Podcast with Scott Barry Kaufman Choose Growth Workbook by Kaufman & Feingold *Transcend: The New Science of Self-Actualization,* by Scott Barry Kaufman Scientific American: Spiritual Narcissism The Lights Triad Personality Test Sensitive Men Rising Documentary Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs Reimagined – Big Think Corey Mascara Podcast on Values Show Notes Origin Story and Human Complexity Scott shares his journey from being labeled “ungifted” with an auditory disability to becoming a cognitive scientist. A pivotal teacher asked, “What are you still doing here?”—sparking self-belief and ambition. “I was a champion for the quirky kids from the start.” His work has shifted from an early obsession with greatness to a lifelong pursuit of self-actualization. “Greatness is tied up in power and status. Self-actualization is about bringing your whole self.” Reimagining Maslow & The Sailboat Metaphor Kaufman replaces the hierarchy of needs with a dynamic sailboat metaphor. The boat represents safety (security, connection, self-esteem); the sail represents growth and transcendence. “Unless we open our sail and become vulnerable to the wind, we can't move toward what matters.” Adds collective dimension: “There are other boats in the sea. Some people forget that.” Contrasts “horizontal transcendence” (connection) with “spiritual narcissism” (superiority). Mental Illness, Creativity, and Thriving Challenges the binary between wellness and illness: “You can be mentally ill and thriving.” Cites research showing creative strengths in children of those with mental illness. “They get the goodies without the baddies—the imagination without the psychosis.” Dismantles false dichotomies in psychiatry: labels vs. lived experience. Encourages integration rather than repression of neurodivergence and emotion. Alignment, Identity, and Individual Growth Alignment—not perfection—is the goal of self-actualization. “Self-actualization coaching isn’t about judgment. It’s about helping people align with their values.” Different people prioritize different values: connection, power, freedom, meaning. Encourages reflection: What roles do you cherish most? What do you say yes and no to? “Ask: What’s my reason for being? What legacy do I want to leave?” Moral Psychology and Mattering Discusses mattering and the perils of performative self-importance. “Some people matter too much… they take up so much space, there’s no room for others.” Proposes a “mattering ecology” for shared dignity and contribution. On moral flexibility: “People who scream loudest often don’t like themselves.” Calls for emotional regulation, reflection, and collective moral grounding in a polarized world. Relationships, Whole Love, and Spirituality Introduces the concept of “whole love”—where all parts of the self are seen, accepted, and growing together. “It's as simple and as hard as that.” Critiques spiritual narcissism and “dark empaths” who use others for ego validation. Real empathy requires asking: “Am I helping this person for their sake—or because I need to be needed?” “Good character doesn’t need an excuse.” Practical Takeaways & Coaching Tools Directs listeners to Choose Growth, a practical workbook co-authored with Dr. Jordan Feingold. Reflection prompts: What am I proud of? What do I wish to change? What’s my legacy? Encourages clarity around values and meaningful roles. Offers self-coaching questions to foster personal ...
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    48 min
  • The Gift of Mutual Relationships, with Dr. Jessica ChenFeng

    The Gift of Mutual Relationships, with Dr. Jessica ChenFeng
    Jun 9 2025
    Meaningful relationships are mutual. Balanced with give and take, equal influence between partners, and a vibrant dance of loving responsiveness and caring attention. Marriage and Family Therapist and professor Dr. Jessica ChenFeng is calling us toward a more justice-oriented approach to relationships and to mental health and well-being, She invites us to open-hearted and empathic perspective taking, and seeking an integrated wholeness that incorporates all of who we are—highlighting the gift of mutuality in our most intimate relationships in marriage and family life. In this conversation with Jessica ChenFeng, we discuss: The importance of integrated and whole experience of ourselves—allowing racial, gender, and cultural identities to weave together in our sense of vocation and contribution to the world The importance of mutuality in relationships—but particularly in marriage and family systems. The ways emotional power flows in a relationship and impacts marriage and family dynamics The difference between partners focusing on meeting their individual needs and caring for the health of an intimate relationship And she offers a guided practical exercise to help us lovingly notice and accept our inner experience with a heart open to justice, vulnerability, and the reminder that we are beloved in the eyes of God. Episode Highlights "Systems of power harm everyone—and to live life to the full, we have to see each other fully." "I believe our move toward life to the full requires us to see the world through a third-order lens: not just family systems, but the racial, gender, and societal systems they exist within." "Mutuality means not just expressing our needs but being willing to be changed by the needs of others." "If we're not attuned to the pleasant sensations in our bodies, we miss the invitations to thrive." "Cultural norms are not God-given realities; they are social constructs we are invited to discern and transform." "Knowledge without authentic relationship keeps us from truly seeing the embodied experiences of others." Helpful Links and Resources Check out the programs in Marriage & Family Therapy at Fuller School of Psychology www.fuller.edu/school-of-psychology/ Fuller Asian American Center aac.fuller.edu/ Socio-Emotional Relationship Therapy (SERT) Overview Circle of Care Model Explained Positive Psychology and Emotions Jeanne Tsai's Research on Culture and Emotion Asian American Values Scale Reference Race and Trauma Resources Jeanne Tsai’s research on culture and emotion – Stanford SPARQ John and Julie Gottman Relationship Research Asian American Values Scale – Paniagua & Yamada (Academic resource) Show Notes Jessica ChenFeng shares her "yes and" identity as a second-generation Taiwanese American grounded in both math and creativity. How earthy aesthetics and connection to nature shape Jessica's professional and personal flourishing. The integration of Christian faith with clinical work at Fuller Seminary. "Seeing systems of systems" — why thriving requires understanding how race, gender, and cultural forces shape individuals and families. Introduction to socio-emotional relationship therapy (SERT) and the value of mutuality in relationships. Defining mutuality: mutual attunement, mutual influence, mutual vulnerability, and mutual relational responsibility. "Mutuality asks: Are both people tending to the relationship itself?" Practical signs of mutual and non-mutual relationships, including emotional attunement and willingness to be influenced. The importance of humility and relational awareness in building mutual relationships. The Circle of Care model: cultivating healthy relational dynamics through attunement and responsiveness. Discerning relational power dynamics in marriages, friendships, and work relationships. "Thriving is an open heart, even on a stressful day." How emotional self-control in Asian American cultures is often rooted in relational ethics, not personal repression. The risk and gift of navigating cross-generational emotional communication in immigrant families. Differentiated selfhood: balancing authenticity with cultural respect in relational dynamics. Race, culture, and relational healing: why systems of privilege harm everyone. "Love your neighbor as yourself" as an ethic for mutual flourishing across racial and cultural difference. Building trust by leaning into discomfort and courageous conversations. The need for embodied encounters with real people beyond theories of race and difference. Mindfulness practice: Jessica leads a guided exercise in attuning to pleasant sensations in the body. The transformational power of positive emotions and embodiment for creativity and resilience. The relational impact of systemic racialization and why "colorblindness" fails to honor real lived experience. Final reflections: How knowing who we are through systemic and relational lenses allows deeper thriving. Pam King’s Key Takeaways Each of us in the human ...
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    1 h et 11 min
  • How to Restore a Relationship, with Dr. Terry Hargrave

    How to Restore a Relationship, with Dr. Terry Hargrave
    May 26 2025
    Romantic relationships are sacred, powerful, and life-giving. But I don’t have to tell you how difficult it is to love and let yourself be loved. Marriage and family therapist Dr. Terry Hargrave has been helping couples in crisis restore broken relationships for decades, teaching them how to get unstuck, improve communication, and move beyond destructive coping mechanisms—to find reciprocity, self-affirming confidence, emotional regulation, and a joyful, lasting love. In this conversation with Terry Hargrave, we discuss: How to turn around a relationship in crisis and get off the emotional rollercoaster How to build security and trust in order to improve or repair a marriage or long-term relationship Coping mechanisms of blame, shame, control, and escape Practical steps to learn emotional self-regulation What to do when only one partner is working on a relationship The role of the brain and neuroplasticity in relational repair And the spiritual underpinnings of Terry’s approach to restoration therapy Helpful Links and Resources Restoration Therapy Training Resources The Mindful Marriage by Ron Deal and Nan Deal (with Terry and Sharon Hargrave) Five Days to a New Self by Terry Hargrave Emotionally Focused Therapy and Sue Johnson's Legacy About Terry Hargrave Dr. Terry Hargrave. Until he retired recently, he was the Evelyn and Frank Freed Professor of Marriage and Family Therapy at Fuller Seminary, and a nationally recognized therapist known for his pioneering work with intergenerational families. He’s most well known as the founder of Restoration Therapy, which combines advantages of Attachment Theory, Emotional Regulation, and Mindfulness—all in an efficient and organized format that allows both the therapist and client to understand old habits and destructive patterns of behavior and promote change in both individual mental and spiritual health, in order to transform our most intimate relationships. Terry has authored or co-authored over 35 professional articles and fifteen books including Restoration Therapy: Understanding and Guiding Healing in Marriage and Family Therapy and Families and Forgiveness: Healing Wounds in the Intergenerational Family. In his latest book project, he worked with his wife Sharon, also a licensed marriage and family therapist. It’s called The Mindful Marriage: Create Your Best Relationship Through Understanding and Managing Yourself, and it’s a practical manual co-written with Ron and Nan Deal about how they healed their relationship after almost losing it. He’s presented internationally on relationship dynamics, family and marriage restoration, the complexities of intergenerational families, healing and reconciliation, and the process of aging. His work has been featured on ABC News, 20/20, Good Morning America, and CBS This Morning as well as several national magazines and newspapers. You can learn more about Terry Hargrave and his work—and find books, practical resources, and professional training materials at: restorationtherapytraining.com. About the Thrive Center Learn more at thethrivecenter.org. Follow us on Instagram @thrivecenter Follow us on X @thrivecenter Follow us on LinkedIn @thethrivecenter About Dr. Pam King Dr. Pam King is Executive Director the Thrive Center and is Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at Fuller School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. Follow her @drpamking. About With & For Host: Pam King Senior Director and Producer: Jill Westbrook Operations Manager: Lauren Kim Social Media Graphic Designer: Wren Juergensen Special thanks to the team at Fuller Studio and the Fuller School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy.
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    1 h et 12 min