Robert Thurman's words were the first I ever read about Tibetan Buddhism, describing the inner explorers of its practices as "psychonauts" and its mental tools for liberation "spiritual technology." Few have done as much to advance the understanding and practice of Tibetan Buddhism in the West and I consider him one of my greatest heroes and teachers.

Robert Thurman, an American author, professor, translator & popularizer of Buddhism, takes a deep dive into immersion through a Buddhist portal, sharing with us, stories & ideas of returning to the essential origin of oneself. Being the father of famed actor Uma Thurman is totally inadequate to describe who he is and where he’s been.

Born in New York City to the stage actor Elizabeth Dean Farrar (1907–1973), a stage actress, & AP editor & UN translator Beverly Reid Thurman, Jr. got his BA from & also did his graduate studies in Sanskrit at Harvard. He eventually built a house in Woodstock, NY where he lived with his first wife & two children for some time.

He has seen much of the world, traveling around Turkey, Iran & India, & moving back to NJ in the US, he became a Buddhist monk, study with Tenzin Gyatso, the 14th Dalai Lama to become the first American-born Tibetan Buddhist in 1965. He was the cofounder & president of the Tibet House in New York, established to preserve Tibetan culture.

He is also the author of many books on Tibetan Buddhism including his popular translation of The Tibetan Book of the Dead.

Thurman & I exchanged numerous stories of immersive experiences & ideas. This was our first conversation in roughly 60 years.

We had met in summer 1960 in New York City through a mutual friend, Bruce Bennett, Thurman’s Harvard classmate. Bennett and I were studying organic chemistry in Columbia University summer school. I was studying Organic chemistry as a pre-med. Although, I never went to medical school, organic chemistry and fluid mechanics are seminal to my work as a composer and sound designer

Bruce, a fine saxophone player, took me with him to meet Thurman in Thurman’s parents’ apartment south of the Columbia campus on the Manhattan upper west side. Thurman was then part of the scene around Timothy Leary at Harvard and working with psychedelics.

I was 19 years old, Thurman and Bennett were 20. A few years later Thurman lost one eye in a horrid accident while changing a car tire. This caused him to change his life. He spent five years traveling in Turkey and Tibet, a journey which would prepare him for a life of scholarship and spiritual growth.

What follows is a 33 minute excerpt of our 75 minute talk, the discussion of immersivity. It begins with Thurman speaking about his friend the Dalai lama.

Topics discussed: Buddhism, immersivity, essential origin of the self, Tibetan Book of the Dead, NYC, Bruce Bennett, Timoty Leary-psychedelics, travel, scholarship, meditation, Dalai Lama, the Sami, reindeer, Helsinki, Himalayas, chanting, sound artist, death, clear light, transparent light, nothingness, void, emptiness, aliens, god, hell, freedom, Joseph Cornell, consciousness, life force, 4 points, of confidence, Alexa AI, musicians losing themselves, remembering one’s birth, dream chanting, dogs.

• Photo: A. Jesse Jiryu Davis

An internal conversation between the creator of iMMERSE!, Charlie Morrow & the producer of iMMERSE!, bart plantenga. They’ve been working on the iMMERSE book-podcast-exhibition project for some years now & it was time to take stock of what they’ve learned & experienced... The fact is the subject of immersion, losing yourself in a context, a space, an altered consciousness remains fascinating. The podcasts are the offspring of the original iMMERSE! book ideas that came to the surface in 2019 as they reconnected after years of little to no contact. They hit upon a collaboration that continues full steam as they discover the depthless depths of immersion...

samples used Sea • Delia Derbyshire A State of Vibration • Wreck This Mess Mikro Kosmos - Archea [Béla Bartók] • Charlie Morrow Mikro Kosmos - Amoeba [Béla Bartók] • Charlie Morrow Train to the Plane • Charlie Morrow Haiku Lingo • Shelley Hirsch & David Weinstein Silence Drawn 4’33” • Paloma Jet & Wreck This Mess HEADPHONICS 01 • Ryoji Ikeda Snake Oil Symphony • Daniel Steven Crafts beach day may 2018 • b/art Cymatic Frequency • Coldcut & Hans Jenny Wave Music III - 60 Clarinets & a Boat • Charlie Morrow 4'33" End Groove Conditional (Various) • b/art Zäuerli • Jodelquartett Säntis Beethoven Amalgam Piano Trio Opus 70 No. 2 & Grosse Fuga 1.1 • Charlie Morrow Trafficante Onosphere • b/art

subjects: immersion, Jerome Rothenberg, dentures, under water, undertow, drowning, marching band, bass drum, Dutch coast, dunes, nostalgia, memory, birds, writing, serotonin, cymatic frequencies, silence, chewing on a bone vs gossip vs science, cochlear implant, SPL – sound pressure level, ears always exposed, mental earplugs, death, drowning, yodeling, Robert Thurman, Tibetan Buddhist Death tales, fallling dreams, lucid dreams, NY Yankees, transistor radio, Mickey Mantle, power of sound, power of words, lifeguard, echo, echo location, soak in the bathtub, enveloped in warm water, Descartes, Plato’s Cratylus, vibration, sense of smell, sight dominance, venue audio aesthetics, Kachun Yu, Halcyon Period, climate change, unstable earth, the valley as recording device, sampling, plagiarism, Beethoven was a sampler, notating folk music, Colin Turnbull, the Ik Tribe, coccoon of specialness, jingoism, the People, immersed in your own uniqueness, Infinite Distraction Syndrome IDS ...

Lotta Wennäkoski is a Finnish composer based in Helsinki. She has won praise and has been described as a lyrical Modernist and post-Expressionist. She studied violin in Budapest in her youth. She also studied music theory & composition at the Sibelius Academy in Helsinki as well as the Royal Conservatory of The Hague under Louis Andriessen.

Wennäkoski launched her career composing for radio plays and short films. Her breakthrough was her performance at the Musica Nova Helsinki festival in 1999. Her work consists of orchestral, chamber and vocal works, many of which are performed worldwide. Notable works include Sakara for orchestra (2003), the flute concerto Soie (2009), which was one of the recommended works at the UNESCO International Rostrum of Composers in 2012, Verdigris for chamber orchestra (2015), commissioned by The Scottish Chamber Orchestra, & the harp concerto Sigla (2022) for Sivan Magen & the Finnish RSO, which was awarded the Gramophone Award 2023 for the contemporary music category.

Wennäkoski was the artistic director of the Tampere Biennale festival in 2008 & 2010, composer-in-residence of the Tapiola Sinfonietta in 2010–2011 & designed the program of the Avanti! Summer Sounds festival in 2017.

Meanwhile, Heikki Nikula is no slouch either. He’s a Finnish musician from Seinäjoki, a small city in the southwest of Finland. He plays numerous wind instruments, percussion & harp but is most known for his work on bass clarinet. He is one of the only proponents of the bass clarinet as solo instrument & has a special fondness for free improvisation.

He graduated from the the Sibelius Academy & joined Helsinki Philharmonic Orchestra in 1991, for whom he continues to perform. He also works with the renowned Finnish chamber orchestra Avanti! & the Free Okapi ensemble. He has also performed on numerous Finnish film & series soundtracks inc. the Battle for Finland. He has recorded 2 CDs of solo music for the instrument – Hoepnadium & Piping Down the Valleys Wild. He has been a member of the Helsinki Filharmonia since 1991, & is one of the original members of the renowned Finnish chamber orchestra "Avanti!."

Sound collage backdrop: b/art & Wreck This Mess