In this discussion, Bly talks of four sources of shame, including shame inherited from parents, grandparents, and ancestors, and shame over our bodily and creative instincts. It opens with a Russian fairy story on the Frog Princess and the shame we feel over our interior "Frog Bride." Bly and host Michael Toms discuss the new work in America on shame, most of it done during the last ten years.

Leaving naivete behind may open up the wilder regions of maleness, where men can wrestle with their demons and, in time, reach maturity and balance, according to Bly, poet and men's workshop facilitator. This is a fascinating dialogue which explores the mystery of maleness and includes Bly's storytelling mastery and poetry.

Bly describes the three necessary and sequential life phases symbolized by three colors - the "red, white and black," in the Grimm Brothers' fairy tale "Iron John." He casts a penetrating light on these male life stages, describing complications that arise, for example, when a boy skips the red and goes directly to the white. He also discusses how these stages, when fulfilled, affect men's relationships with women.

Characterized by petty rivalries, self-indulgence and lack of responsibility, our actions fail to fulfill what Robert Bly describes as our true soul longing. With characteristic irreverence and storytelling from various cultures, Bly tells us what we should be doing about green-haired adolescents and idle elders, not to mention televisions and computers. His insightful focus illuminates the truths and possibilities of a culture caught in an adolescent phase of development.

In ordinary life, a mentor can guide a young man through various disciplines, helping to bring him out of boyhood into manhood; and that in turn is associated not with bodybuilding, but with building an emotional body capable of containing more than one sort of ecstasy.