In this conversation, Zak Stein and Marc Gafni discuss the concept of desire and its role in human existence. They explore the idea that desire is a fundamental aspect of reality and that it shapes our experience of the world. They also delve into the story of the Garden of Eden and its symbolic significance, highlighting the themes of desire, loneliness, and the search for connection. The conversation touches on the different aspects of desire, the relationship between power and desire, and the importance of understanding the interplay between devotion and desire. Overall, the conversation offers a deep exploration of desire and its implications for human life.

The conversation explores the concept of scripts of desire and how they shape our understanding of reality. The hosts discuss the story of the Garden of Eden as a script of desire and how different interpretations of the story reveal our own scripts of desire. They also delve into the idea that reality itself is a script of desire and that our participation in reality is expressed through our unique desires. The conversation highlights the importance of clarifying our desires and aligning them with the desires of reality. They also touch on the influence of advertising and the need to be conscious of the scripts of desire that are being imposed on us.

In this conversation, Marc Gafni, Ken Wilber, and Zak Stein discuss the relationship between desire and value. They explore different perspectives on desire, ranging from it being a degraded condition to it being a deed that can be controlled. They argue that desire is a condition and that clarifying desire is a way to honor its dignity. They also discuss the concept of value and its connection to prehension, emphasizing that value is both a product and a cause of prehension. They introduce the term 'Eros value' to describe the interplay between desire and value. The conversation concludes with a discussion on the need for a new language and grammar of value.

00:00 Exploring the Concept of Value

04:40 The Role of Holons and Desire

09:01 Chemistry as the Music of Desire

12:43 The Periodic Table of Desire Value

17:23 Understanding Will and Desire

23:00 The Dignity of Desire

31:26 Desire as a Condition

36:18 Value as a Product and Cause of Prehension

45:27 Introducing Eros Value

49:58 The Need for a New Language and Grammar of Value