Gabrielle de la Puente, half of the art critic duo The White Pube, talks about:

A few things people outside of the UK need to know about Liverpool, where she’s based; the origin story of the White Pube, when Gabrielle and Zarina were in art school together; the reputation of Central Saint Martins, the art school where they met, including where it was when they started school, which was already in a more gentrified, corporate atmosphere (they had to use key cards to get into the studios, for example); their working dynamic since their collaboration started, which involved more in-person activity early on when they were regularly in demand to talk about criticism at various art schools (because of how different they were from the clichés of an art critic), to now being more consistently using WhatsApp and ‘flying by the seat of our pants;’ how key it is that they post about culture-at-large, not just art (their film restaurant reviews have been their most read); her solo visit to a special preview of a Peter Doig show in Edinburgh that had a tragic quality to it, but also became a great symbol for the artist’s struggle; their book, Poor Artists, including how they wrote it with both readers as well as subjects who they interviewed (and paid), including a moment in the book when the narrator talks about their experience of a performance in a gallery; and the case of the late artist, Nat Tate.

This podcast relies on listener support; please consider becoming a Patreon supporter of the podcast, for as little as $1/month, here: https://www.patreon.com/theconversationpod

The Conversation was recently included in Feedspot’s list of top art podcasts. We’re grateful to make the list again!

After learning about the Lights Out Meta campaign, a boycott on all Meta platforms from January 19th thru January 26th, 2025, it sounded like a good idea, and after reading about it more extensively, I think it's a necessary one.

Here are the articles I quote from in this one-off boycott episode:

Meta's pivot to the right sparks boycotts and calls for a user exodus

and-

Lights Out Meta: R.E.M.’s Michael Stipe calls for Meta boycott to protest rise of US far-right

and-

Meta Boycott And TikTok Ban Could Signal Social Media's Transformation

Founder of the SCOPE Art Show, Alexis Hubshman talks about everything from its size (approx. 300,000 sq ft of exhibition space), to the number of galleries exhibited (95 from 27 countries) to how he makes the fair run smoothly; his support of new and emerging galleries, giving many of them rent-free booths, subsidized by their corporate sponsor partnerships; how he sees the accessibility of the art at Scope as a form of open-source experience, emphasizing being welcoming to visitors; how and why they’ve taken more nouveau-pop sensibilities out of the exhibition equation; he breaks down Scope’s Miami week as catering to: high-end collectors and museum curators on Tues. and Wed., Thurs. into Friday are for “culture shifters,” while Saturday and Sunday are a ‘come one, come all’ scenario; how when he got sober 15 years ago, he decided to limit Scope’s enterprise to Scope Miami (no more Basel, London, Hampton, L.A.), to both focus the work and to allow for his quality of life; how he’s able to attend the other fairs happening simultaneously in Miami, which he credits to his great team; the shift in the industry towards sobriety between the 90s/2000s to now, even showing more of a yoga-and-sound-bowls kind of morning these days for his team; and how bullish he feels (was feeling) going into the fairs, Scope specifically, based on the election, the location, the market generally and other intangibles.

In the latest OLD NEWS roundup with Emily Colucci of Filthy Dreams, we start by revisiting our prior, charged exchanged about Louis CK, in which Emily was admittedly a bit of an apologist for him, which alienated some listeners- in this case, while we don’t land on the same page, we do air out our respective perspectives, and Emily dubs herself a contrarian. This leads to a brief discussion of the culture of heterodoxy, which promotes viewing issues from multiple angles as opposed to just your typical ideology; Emily’s interest in what she calls ‘the trash aesthetic,’ the pinnacle of which she explored by braving a late-October rally at Madison Square Garden featuring you-know-which-politician as the headliner, an event she ultimately describes as surprisingly boring; Emily’s own article (appearing in the Oct. 12th OLD NEWS), “GAGOSIAN-BRANDED STICKER MADE ME HATE NAN GOLDIN’S “YOU NEVER DID ANYTHING WRONG,’ in which she critiques Goldin’s exhibition at Gagosian through the highly distorted lens of being made to cover up her phone’s camera lens with a Gagosian-branded sticker (and Emily now knows the impact of her blog post about it- which is that the gallery’s not going to do the sticker cover-up anymore); Emily shares her admiration for Goldin, not only her art but also her activism, through P.A.I.N. as well as that related to A.I.D.S.

To hear this episode in its entirety, including bonus content on Gary Indiana, Libbie Mugrabi and more, go to: patreon.com/theconversationpod where you can support the podcast for as little as $1 a month

In Episode 368, Tulsa Kinney, artist and now former founding editor of Artillery magazine, talks about:

Why she sold the magazine after running it for 18 years, including burnout but also how impersonal she feels the art world has become since its more modest size when the magazine began; the lack of support she/the magazine received from many galleries, while receiving support from institutions like the LA Philharmonic; the dual role she’s had as an art magazine editor and as an artist, and seeing the art world from both perspectives; how it’s been lovely being recognized (if not necessarily respected) when she walks into galleries; the pros and cons of running the magazine virtually, even though a print magazine; her highlights over the years running Artillery, including interviewing Mike Kelley, despite his writing an angry letter-to-the-editor for an unwanted call-out in the magazine’s gossip column (she did offer him a magazine retraction for the bit, which helped get him do to the interview), and what a breath of fresh air Tulsa says he was in the art world; getting the last interview with Mike Kelley, and the pushback she got for having him on the magazine’s cover when he took his life, as well as the lack of interest from the art world (including the Mike Kelley Foundation) in that interview as historical material

In our continued dissection of the OLD NEWS, Emily Colucci and I discuss:

Indicted former art advisor Lisa Schiff and her upcoming bankruptcy auction, to be conducted by Phillips; how Paul McCarthy is slowly throwing out his immense artwork, WS (White Snow), because he can’t store the work any longer, and how he failed to get any museums to buy the work, ultimately deciding to throw the work out piece by piece, which is, of course, logistically challenging (it takes up 4000 sq. ft of space and contains some very challenging- (read: yucky) ephemera); the art of Operation Under, a collective of artists who make wall paintings in underground tunnels throughout LA County, in one case the writer (Matt Stromberg of Hyperallergic) encounters racoons both in painted form as well as the in-real-life, glowing-eyes kind; how one museum took to pairing smells with a pre-Raphaelite artwork exhibition (including ‘dewy grass’), and how it led viewers to stay with the work a significantly longer period than traditional scent-less art viewing.

In the latest round of OLD NEWS with former guest Emily Colucci (creator of the art & culture website Filthy Dreams), we cover: cancel culture through the lens of James Franco (who was part of our original recording back in 2016) and Louis C.K.; Cai Guo-Qiang’s botched fireworks performance at the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum as part of PST Art’s ‘Science and Art’-themed mega-art event, including injured spectators; our own thoughts and feelings about fireworks, particularly of the neighborhood kind, and how Emily kind of loves the tacky spectacle of them; how California College of the Arts is considering closing its doors, and whether it’s surprising there aren’t more private art schools that are closing or on the verge of doing so; how and why the art market is struggling, and how Emily is frustrated that if nobody is selling anything anyway, why is everyone putting on boring shows?; how Emily tends not to interact with gallery-sitters/gallerinas, having been one herself (at Sikkema Jenkins) and just wanting the visitor to leave already; and our respective strategic approaches to gallery-hopping with an emphasis on efficiency and avoiding everything blurring together at the end of the day.

The Conversation is doing an Open Call for future guests of the show (thru Oct. 10th)- if you’re interested in being a guest, please submit here: "The Conversation Art Podcast" - Guest Open Call (jotform.com)

Brooklyn artist, former hardcore-band singer, and recurring figure in Bianca Bosker’s ‘Get the Picture’), Liz Ainslie talks about: singing in the scream-core band Give Up while she was in college, including how she was able to maintain her vocal cords, and eventually crossing the divide in choosing between music and art; how she moved to Williamsburg, Brooklyn 20 years ago (eventually taking over the master lease of an artist loft after initially having several roommates), how the neighborhood has changed over the decades, and how and why so many of her artist peers have managed to remain in New York despite the high rents; how she’s currently organizing with her neighbors in the building to maintain the artist’s loft laws; how she and the artists in her community piece together income from various sources, only one of them being their artmaking, and how several successful artists in that community have stuck around (as opposed to moving upstate, for example) to both give back and to stay connected; her day job and how she’s able to work remotely, but still needs to find a coffee shop or other places to work away from her home; working for other artists, mainly in big Tribecca lofts, and the skills she learned, including the logistics of running professional artist studios; and how as an artist you should be very clear about everything from scheduling visits to respective responsibilities for artwork in your communications with fellow professionals.