• With & For / Dr. Pam King

  • Written by: Dr. Pam King
  • Podcast

With & For / Dr. Pam King

Written by: Dr. Pam King
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  • Summary

  • With & For explores the depths of psychological science and spiritual wisdom to offer practical guidance towards spiritual health, wholeness, and a life of thriving. Hosted by developmental psychologist Dr. Pam King.
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Hygiene & Healthy Living Psychology Science Social Sciences Spirituality
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Episodes
  • Listening to Our Emotions: Healing Through Self-Compassion, Grief, and Acceptance, with Dr. David C. Wang

    Listening to Our Emotions: Healing Through Self-Compassion, Grief, and Acceptance, with Dr. David C. Wang
    Feb 17 2025
    Emotional health is deeply intertwined in an ongoing journey with spiritual health. This involves opening to our pain, grieving our trauma, and patiently cultivating a resilience that stabilizes and secures our relationships and our sense of self.With compassion, pastoral presence, and emotional attunement, psychologist Dr. David Wang is using psychological and theological tools to help us understand and adapt to emotional realities, explore the wounds of our past, and find healing and strength through acceptance and grief.In this conversation with David Wang, we discuss:The difference between human development and spiritual formation and how to understand maturityThe centrality of relationships in human life and growth, and how that’s grounded in divine relationality and our communion with GodHow to become friends with ourselves, offering self-compassion and being moved by our own sufferingThe impact of childhood trauma on adult emotional, psychological, and spiritual healthAnd finally, how a practice of grief can help us understand and work through traumatic experiences and move toward healing.Show NotesChristian theology and formationA philosophical approach to theologically informed strategies for transformation and growthHow the relational aspects of God ground an approach to therapy and spiritual formationWhat are the markers of maturity?Relatedness and connection to others facilitates the process of human growth and developmentEmotional building blocks and relational capacities for maturityDave Wang on spiritual health and thrivingTheological and psychological frameworks of thrivingHolding the beautiful beside the brokenBecoming friends with ourselvesShow compassion, be moved by our own suffering, and accept limitations as we strive toward the hard work we’re all called to.Two paradoxical needs to achieve spiritual maturity and healthWe are made for relationships, but we also need independenceBalanceSpiritual and emotional maturityFormation through practice, education, and healthy developmentCan virtue be taught?Can maturity be educated?Can we learn to thrive and be spiritually healthy?In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts, Dr. Gabor Maté writes that “The attempt to escape from pain is what creates more pain.”When our brains and our bodies go into survival modeAvoidance as a coping mechanism or strategyChildhood trauma in childhood“When the psychic pain is so unbearable, the felt threat so intimidating, we mentally and emotionally try to escape.”Childhood trauma can reemerge in adult behaviors, relationships, habits, language, even physical illness or conditions.Do I have trauma that I haven’t dealt with?The symptoms or signs of traumaHow to approach the process of seeking help and healing.Concrete practices that can help and heal traumatic experienceLearning to grieveChristian spiritual practices of prayerThe emotional practice of grief and acceptanceDr. Pam King’s Key TakeawaysHuman beings need both relationships and independence. And learning how to balance and integrate them is a marker of our maturity.Though we may try to escape from pain, to deal with trauma we need to practice acceptance and grief. It’s a difficult and complex relational process that brings us closer to healing and wholeness.We can befriend ourselves in our pain through a practice of self-compassion.In this life, we have to hold beauty beside brokenness. Cultivating the capacity to do so is the hard work of growth into spiritual and emotional maturity, and the joyful journey of thriving.About David WangDr. David Wang is a licensed psychologist and Associate Professor of Psychology at Fuller Theological Seminary, where he’s also the Cliff and Joyce Penner Chair for the Formation of Emotionally Healthy Leaders and scholar in residence at Fuller’s Center for Spiritual Formation. He speaks and trains leaders globally on trauma informed care. And he conducts research and teaches courses in Trauma Therapy, Dialectical Behavior Therapy, Multicultural Psychology, and the Integration of Psychology and the Christian faith. He is also Pastor of Spiritual Formation at One Life City Church in Fullerton, California. About the Thrive CenterLearn more at thethrivecenter.org.Follow us on Instagram @thrivecenterFollow us on X @thrivecenterFollow us on LinkedIn @thethrivecenter About Dr. Pam KingDr. Pam King is Executive Director the Thrive Center and is Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at Fuller School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. Follow her @drpamking. About With & ForHost: Pam KingSenior Director and Producer: Jill WestbrookOperations Manager: Lauren KimSocial Media Graphic Designer: Wren JuergensenConsulting Producer: Evan RosaSpecial thanks to the team at Fuller Studio and the Fuller School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy.
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    1 hr and 6 mins
  • The Psychology of Disaster: The Impact of Calamity on Mental, Emotional, and Spiritual Health, with Dr. Jamie Aten and Dr. Pam King

    The Psychology of Disaster: The Impact of Calamity on Mental, Emotional, and Spiritual Health, with Dr. Jamie Aten and Dr. Pam King
    Feb 12 2025
    “Meaning making is so fundamental to who we are as humans, and when that’s ruptured, it’s devastating.” (Dr. Pam King, from this episode)“Spiritual fortitude is different from resilience … it helps us to realize that we still learn to live in the midst of suffering. … It helps us metabolize our suffering.” (Dr. Jamie Aten, from this episode)One of the hopeful things in the aftermath of the Los Angeles fires is how I have seen people within L.A. show up with and for each other. And I'm especially grateful for this audience because I know you are all people who care to show up with people, and for people. Thank you for being light in these hard times.And I was talking with Evan Rosa. The producer and host of For the Life of the World (Yale Center for Faith & Culture) about the turbulent times that we are experiencing in Los Angeles.And I was also speaking about experts who deal with trauma, disaster, psychological first aid, spiritual first aid, and also reflecting on my own experiences of watching the community around me evaporate. Evan had the great idea to invite me and Dr. Jamie Aten, the head of Wheaton's Humanitarian Disaster Institute, for an interview.And I think you'll resonate with a lot of the themes of this episode, even if you aren't living in the midst of a disaster.We all have challenges, and these are great moments to dig deep and live connected with each other and for each other in purposeful ways.So what follows is sharing our interview with Evan Rosa. Thanks for listening.Show Notes (from the episode page of For the Life of the World)Disaster preparedness is sort of an oxymoron. Disaster is the kind of indiscriminate calamity that only ever finds us ill-equipped to manage. And if you are truly prepared, you’ve probably averted disaster.There’s a big difference between the impact of disaster on physical, material life—and its outsized impact on mental, emotional, and spiritual life.Personal disasters like a terminal illness, natural disasters like the recent fires that razed southern Californian communities, the impact of endless, senseless wars … these all cause a pain and physical damage that can be mitigated or rebuilt. But the worst of these cases threaten to destroy the very meaning of our lives.No wonder disaster takes such a psychological and spiritual toll. There’s an urgent need to find or even make meaning from it. To somehow explain it, justify why God would allow it, and tell a grand story that makes sense from the senseless.These are difficult questions, and my guests today both have personal experience with disaster. Dr. Pam King is the Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at Fuller School of Psychology, and the Executive Director the Thrive Center. She’s an ordained Presbyterian minister, and she hosts a podcast on psychology and spirituality called With & For. Dr. Jamie Aten is a disaster psychologist and disaster ministry expert, helping others navigate mass, humanitarian, and personal disasters with scientific and spiritual insights. He is the Founder and Executive Director of the Humanitarian Disaster Institute Wheaton College, where he holds the Blanchard Chair of Humanitarian & Disaster Leadership. He is author of A Walking Disaster: What Surviving Katrina and Cancer Taught Me about Faith and Resilience.In this conversation, Pam King and Jamie Aten join Evan Rosa to discuss:Each of their personal encounters with disasters—both fire and cancerThe psychological study of disasterThe personal impact of disaster on mental, emotional, and spiritual healthThe difference between resilience and fortitudeAnd the theological and practical considerations for how to live through disastrous events.About Pam KingPam King is Executive Director the Thrive Center and is Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at Fuller School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. She hosts the With & For podcast, and you can follow her @drpamking.About Jamie AtenJamie D. Aten is a disaster psychologist and disaster ministry expert. He helps others navigate mass, humanitarian, and personal disasters with scientific and spiritual insights. He is the Founder and Executive Director of the Humanitarian Disaster Institute and Disaster Ministry Conference and holds the Blanchard Chair of Humanitarian & Disaster Leadership at Wheaton College. And he’s the author of A Walking Disaster: What Surviving Katrina and Cancer Taught Me about Faith and Resilience.Show NotesHumanitarian Disaster InstituteSpiritual First AidJamie Aten’s A Walking Disaster: What Surviving Katrina and Cancer Taught Me about Faith and ResilienceThe Thrive Center at Fuller SeminaryPam King’s personal experience fighting fires in the Eaton Fire in January 20255,000 homes destroyed55 schools and houses of worship are gone“Neighborhoods are annihilated …”Jamie Aten offers an overview of the impact of disasters on humanity, and the human ...
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    1 hr and 1 min
  • From Rupture to Repair: Relationships, Emotional Regulation, and Our Social Brains, with Dr. Tina Bryson

    From Rupture to Repair: Relationships, Emotional Regulation, and Our Social Brains, with Dr. Tina Bryson
    Feb 3 2025
    Our brains hold our relational history—all the joys, all the ruptures, all the repairs. And even in the most difficult childhood or parenting circumstances, the science of relationships and connection can give us hope for whole-brain and whole-life transformation.Therapist, bestselling author, and mom—Dr. Tina Payne Bryson is seeking a connection revolution that brings neurobiology and practical relational wisdom to bear on both how we were parented, how we parent, and how we relate throughout our lifespan.In this conversation with Tina Bryson, we discuss:The science of childhood relational development and growth into strong, adaptive adultsThe brain as our most social organ—capable of holding a lifetime of relational and emotional historyHow to emotionally co-regulate with another person to achieve a calm, peaceful, and vibrant relationshipNeuroplasticity and our ability to change with intention toward our deepest held valuesAnd we explore how the science of connection, attachment, and interpersonal neurobiology sheds light on how we were parented, and impacts how we might parent ourselves and how we relate to everyone.Books by Dr. Tina BrysonThe Way of Play (Tina’s latest book!)The Whole-Brain ChildNo-Drama DisciplineThe Yes BrainThe Power of Showing UpFollow Tina BrysonTinaBryson.com Instagram X The Center for ConnectionShow NotesDr. Tina Bryson: an expert in neurobiology, parenting, child development, and attachment theory.Highlighting Tina’s unique perspective as both a clinician and science-engaged researcher.This conversation focuses on parenting, but it’s relevant for everyone—whether you’re a leader, mentor, or someone reflecting on your own upbringingThe importance of connection, attunement, and emotional regulation in today’s world."I feel so aware that this is not an easy time to be a child or a teenager in the world."Kids today face unique challenges that are very different from previous generations:More stimulation, information, and pressure than ever before.Earlier onset of puberty and adolescence, with young adults taking longer to launch."We often talk about the challenges of youth, which are absolutely real, but we don’t want to forget that in many ways, the world is actually safer."Positive shifts in youth well-being: fewer teen pregnancies; safer environments (cars, car seats, public spaces)l greater awareness of mental health, substance use, and emotional well-beingWhat Do You Say?: How to Talk with Kids to Build Motivation, Stress Tolerance, and a Happy Home, by William Stixrud and Ned JohnsonThe brain is a social organ—we are profoundly shaped by the people around us."A huge contributor to some of the struggles youth are having is because their grownups are not thriving."Interpersonal neurobiology teaches that children’s well-being is tied to their caregivers’ ability to regulate their own emotions.Takeaway: Parents who are anxious, reactive, or dysregulated create environments where their children struggle to regulate their emotions."The greatest gift we can give each other is a calm presence."“History is not destiny.”Emotional offloading or outsourcingSafe haven or safe harbor: cozy, safe, calm“My mom will never listen.”Understanding teenagers“Please don’t chase your child and force connection.”Non-eye contact feels less intrusive and they’ll open up moreUnderstanding Attachment & The Four S’s: Safe, Seen, Soothed, SecureSecure attachment is a key predictor of well-being in children and adults.Attachment is built through repeated experiences of the Four S’s:Safe: "Do I feel physically and emotionally secure with this person?"Seen: "Does this person understand and acknowledge my emotions and experiences?"Soothed: "When I’m in distress, does this person help me feel better?"Secure: "Do I trust that this person will be there for me consistently?"Set an intention: "When my child walks through the door, I want them to feel at rest, safe, and accepted."Practical Parenting Tip: If your child pushes you away, don’t force connection. Instead, say: "I can see you need some space right now. I’m here whenever you’re ready to talk."Managing Teen Independence: When teens ask for space, don’t take it personally. Instead, try: "I’m here if you want to talk later.""Would you be open to a short walk or helping me in the kitchen?"The basics of attachment theory: John Bowlby and Mary AinsworthMama BearsNot just brain, but whole nervous systemSecure Relating: Holding Your Own in an Insecure World, by Sue Marriot and Ann Kelley"Without awareness, we don’t have choice."—Dan SiegelHistory is not destiny. We can rewire our brains and create new, healthier patterns in relationships.The availability of your presence creates a secure environmentRegulation & Emotional ResilienceDefinition of Regulation: The ability to monitor and modify emotional states rather than reacting impulsively.It’s NOT about being emotionless—it’s about ...
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    1 hr and 37 mins

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