In Episode 235, a PBSE listener writes in to ask Mark & Steve for guidance on how to best support his partner going forward. The couple were together off and on for 11 years and then married for the last 10 years. During the entire span of 21 years, he has struggled with sex/porn addiction and alcohol abuse. Recently, he got serious about getting into recovery, for both his alcohol dependency and his sex/porn addiction. As an essential part of his recovery and her healing, under the direction of a therapist, they engaged in their first "Discovery Day," where the truth about his decades-long addictions, gaslighting, lying, manipulation, etc., came out into the light. He seems determined to keep moving forward in his recovery and is asking, "Now what? How can I be there for her in this time immediately after disclosure and going forward?"

Mark and Steve call upon their decades-long experience with all aspects of the Disclosure process and what it takes for an addict to continue progressing in recovery and help his partner start and continue healing from betrayal trauma—

• All “disclosures” are not created equal! There are a number of parts of the addict’s submission that cause concern—
  • He indicates he wasn’t fully prepared for the Disclosure. What does it realistically take to “be prepared”?
  • They only had a 45-minute session set aside for D-day. Why might this be a problem?
  • It appears that the continuance of his disclosure and her questions happened 2 days later and then again 2 days after that—and apparently without the therapist. Where can this approach go wrong?
  • What ARE the parts of an effective Disclosure? The 3 FOUNDATIONAL FOOTINGS—Disclosure; Impact; and Amends.
• After all three parts of a formal Disclosure, THEN WHAT?
  • This is NOT a “one and done”! It's an “intimacy doorway” we walk through and it is just the beginning.
  • Going forward is all about “Living Amends” on the part of the addict in recovery.
  • Consistency, consistency, consistency—a trajectory/up-ward spiral that includes many efforts on the part of the addict including leaning in; leading out; proactively pursuing recovery; proactively anticipating and participating in the healing partner's needs, and more.

Learn more about Mark and Steve's revolutionary online porn/sexual addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing program at—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at: Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at: Reclaim Counseling Services

Episode 234 comes in response to TWO situations/questions sent to PBSE by porn/sex addicts in recovery. Here’s a brief overview of each—

The first has been addicted to porn since he was 14 and is now well into his adult years. He was in a relationship for 3 years before disclosing his addiction. In his own words he says—Since then I have lied about recovery; was in active addiction while supposedly practicing recovery; gaslit, verbally and psychologically abused my partner for years. I lied in my disclosure and also failed a polygraph test. I triangulated her with therapists and friends.

As would be obvious, all of this has severely impacted his partner. Here’s what he shares about that—My partner has suffered greatly from everything I have done. She is extremely depressed and doesn't know how to feel better. We spend a lot of time talking about all the issues, and even more so when I continue my bad behaviors. She feels hopeless, that I don't love her, and that I don't desire her. She believes that I will never be able to love her like she deserves. I love her—but I have failed multiple times to show that I desire her and want her. Demonstrating the opposite.

This addict appears to have finally become serious about recovery—he attends 12-Step meetings, has a Sponsor, has worked with a CSAT therapist, and has become completely honest. He is “sober” from porn, BUT, he still feels himself holding back, returning to old behaviors, not being “emotionally sober,” present and transparent, etc. He asks PBSE, “What do I really want? Am I lying to myself about this whole recovery thing? Do I just not care and I’m just being a whiny child?!”

The second submission comes from a porn/sex addict who has been in serious recovery for the last 7 ½ years. He attends multiple 12-Step meetings each week, works with a CSAT, has a solid outside support system that he connects with daily, BUT here’s his frustration—

Yet I still act out every 2-3 months on average* and I am NOT okay with this. While better than before (2-3 times/week), it is so frustrating to have all this experience and wisdom, yet to not be able to surrender a craving. Every relapse feels like a different reason (shame, fear, overwork, resentment, pain, exhaustion, rest, fun) and I need a PhD in psychology to find the heart issues before they become porn issues. My sweet, strong, forgiving wife says she is still with me, though divorce is now on the table. I fear the day she wakes up and feels ridiculous that she's still in this relationship.

In this episode, Mark and Steve get raw and real about what a porn/sex addict needs to do to GET REAL, LASTING SEXUAL & EMOTIONAL SOBRIETY AND RECOVERY!


Learn more about Mark and Steve's revolutionary online porn/sexual addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing program at—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at: Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at: Reclaim Counseling Services

In Episode 233, Mark & Steve respond to a very heart-felt submission from a betrayed partner, who asks some very hard questions about her relationship with a partner who is a porn/sex addict in recovery. Here's what she submitted to PBSE—

Hi Mark and Steve, I’m feeling a lot of apathy in my marriage and I don’t understand the point in staying. I’ve been with my husband for two years and married for less than six months. We have been separated for two weeks now because he has kept relapsing on porn. I have been previously married and initiated the divorce when I realized I was in a psychologically abusive marriage. My current husband has the pattern of—a [new disclosure day,] then a honeymoon period where he makes changes and has lots of epiphanies, and then within a couple of weeks he slides backwards and then he is shocked when he relapses again. This time around it looks like he is throwing himself into recovery: 12 step attendance, therapy, daily accountability partner, journaling, meeting with our religious leader. But I just don’t believe in any of it. I’m waiting for the cycle to repeat itself. I go to my own support groups and I listen to these sad women and the whole time I’m thinking, “why are we putting up with this? Why are we risking our well-being for the slim chance our addict spouses will change decades of ingrained behavior?” I want to leave. I know life goes on after divorce. I know I’ll be ok. Currently I stay because God has told me to give it more time. But I am not interested in being another woman whose spouse is still relapsing years later. Could you please tell us spouses what’s the point in staying? What is there to be gained for us?

- In the Dare to Connect program, we are currently diving deep into what it means to get in-tune with one's authentic wants and needs in a relationship and how to set healthy boundaries around this authenticity.

- Too often in our culture, it's not safe to express true wants and needs, or we're used to them not being consistently met anyway, so we naturally default to hopelessness, apathy and exhaustion.

- How can betrayed partners peel back the layers on what they truly and authentically want and need at their deepest core--and HOW can they voice these and place healthy boundaries around them?

- How can a betrayed partner use a "Pros & Cons" list to get raw and real in the decision about whether to stay or go—and how can she talk openly and vulnerably with her addict partner about this list?

- For many betrayed partners, it IS authentic to keep having hope, being optimistic and keep seeing the good in their addict partners. But are there limits on this approach? When does it leave the realm of being "authentic"?

- Why a betrayed partner should ALWAYS make life-altering decisions from a place of EMPOWERMENT and NEVER from a boxed-in place of helplessness.


Learn more about Mark and Steve's revolutionary online porn/sexual addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing program at—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at: Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at: Reclaim Counseling Services

In PBSE Episode 232, Mark & Steve respond to a listener's experience and questions with regard to the approach to Betrayal Trauma healing that PBSE and Dare to Connect take, vs. the experience in 12-Step groups. Here's what the partner of a porn/sex addict submitted to PBSE—

Is it me or are the approaches of partner-oriented 12-step fellowships the opposite of the recovery approach taken in PBSE podcasts? The podcasts are all about connection and boundaries. The partner’s 12-step fellowship I attend feels all about ignoring your partner's actions and not letting his actions hurt you. And doing what makes you happy? So it’s about disconnection…. Right? Why is it that they (12-Step groups) are popular on both reddit and your podcasts? Am I seeing this wrong?? Or is there something about those 12 step fellowships that I don’t understand??

On the surface, the approach in PBSE/Dare to Connect vs. 12-Step for partners, can in some ways seem very different. However, they actually are the same fundamental approach, but from two different directions!

Here are essentially the two questions/observations about 12-Step, presented by this betrayed partner—

“It’s all about ignoring your partner’s actions… right?”

- NO! It’s about SURRENDERING your partner’s actions, focusing on yourself (including your trauma & pain) and what you CAN control, which is boundaries built first around your own safety, needs and wants, and then incorporated properly into a committed relationship. This allows for personal healing and the most optimal functioning of the relationship. As recovery and healing progress, a partner uses healthy boundaries to create safety and expectations for what is needed for the rebuilding of trust and moving toward deeper connection.

“It’s all about disconnection…. Right?”

- It's about establishing and holding boundaries around the needs of the self FIRST and learning how to fill your own bucket in healthy ways.

- Depending on how early one is in healing and recovery/how deep the enmeshment trends run in each individual/in the relationship, MAINTAINING LONG-TERM HEALTHY CONNECTION SOMETIMES MEANS SHORT-TERM DISCONNECTION.

- Once personal healing, healthy boundary setting & holding, and healthy sovereignty/independence are happening in a sustainable way, it allows us to authentically connect with those in the world around us, INCLUDING our addict partners.

- Mark and his partner, and Steve and his partner have the best marriages they've ever had, BECAUSE they don’t "need" each other (aren't "needy") the way that they used to. They each work to stand emotionally on their own two feet, and support each other wherever and whenever they can, WITHOUT taking ownership of the other person’s “stuff."

Learn more about Mark and Steve's revolutionary online porn/sexual addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing program at—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at: Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at: Reclaim Counseling Services

Episode 231 comes in response to a very raw and real submission by a PBSE listener who is the partner of a sex addict. Here's what she vulnerably expressed—

I’m the partner of a sex/porn addict who has a 3-4 year history of lying about being in “recovery.” Even to sponsors, men groups & therapists. My experience has always been my discovery, never his disclosure, and death by a thousand cuts over the years. He states he is now “taking his recovery seriously.” That’s to be seen. I’m not writing on what to do about him. I’m writing to understand and get closure for myself from an addiction perspective since it has consistently been denied me. When in active addiction or in actual recovery, is it true to believe that sexually and aesthetically I will always be “the lesser thing” or major effort will be required on his part to simply desire me in a way that so many other women are/have been desirable to him? I’ve watched him put tons of effort and protection around his efforts to desire other women. But when it comes to me, there’s absolutely nothing there. No pursuit, no flirting, no dates, no chivalry, no sex, and no love. He acts bored, uninterested and even bothered by my presence. He calls this "being sober." I call it being more than alone and it's led me to consider ACTUALLY being alone rather than suffering while waiting for something that seemingly is never coming. My mental health is demanding I get away from this with urgency. I’ve wanted my family to stay together but not at the detriment of my own health. He’s obviously more interested in other women and my concern is that since I’ve already been determined as “less than” to him, I will never be enough and what he truly desires—even if he does get into real, active recovery.

In this episode, Mark & Steve get raw and real about how to approach this situation form the aspect of a partner that is AUTHENTIC, EMPOWERED, and BOUNDARIED!

How does the partner of a sex/porn addict get in touch with her true, authentic WANTS and NEEDS? What can easily derail this process? What are the obstacles that prevent a partner from fully engaging in the process of determining and expressing these wants and needs?

Why are these wants and needs critical when making life-altering decisions about a relationship?

Why are BOUNDARIES the GRAND KEY to getting wants and needs met OR deciding to move on?


Learn more about Mark and Steve's revolutionary online porn/sexual addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing program at—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at: Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at: Reclaim Counseling Services

In Episode 230, the betrayed parter of a porn/sex addict submitted her situation and some questions to PBSE surrounding the CRITICAL issue of "restitution." Here's how she expressed it—

Over the course of our 25 year long marriage, my husband had two emotional affairs, a decade and a half long porn addiction and a 2 year long physical and emotional affair with a coworker. I was completely blindsided—no inklings or gut feelings. It has been brutal but we are working hard to heal. He has been in honest recovery for a little over a year. He has been through the 12 Steps and worked with our ecclesiastical leader. Both have encouraged some form of restitution. Obviously, he can’t unsee all the porn and undo all the selfish, hurtful things he did and said to me. I have asked him what restitution looks like (or means) for him. He said it was to try and become his best, highest self that God intends him to be —living wholeheartedly and try to not cause anymore suffering in the world. Is that restitution? Is working on yourself to be a better human and husband the same as making restitution? It seems like that is what he should’ve been doing - independent of me - all along. If that isn’t restitution—then what is? How do you make restitution for serious betrayals?

In this episode, Mark & Steve get SUPER passionate, raw and real about this issue!

• Let’s Talk Restitution for a Minute:
  • Sexual betrayal in a relationship is like a major "robbery"! Why and how?
    • Restitution IS—
      • A demonstration of contrition
      • A FULL (as much as possible) RESTORATION of WHAT WAS STOLEN:
        • Innocence
        • Hope
        • Connection
        • Trust
        • Time
        • Commitment
        • Fidelity
        • Her ENTIRE ESSENCE
    • Restitution is NOT—
      • Something the addict determines
      • Doing the things that you should have done all along—getting to the “starting line” that she thought she had and you promised in the beginning, such as—
        • Proactively connecting—being FULLY present
        • Making and Keeping COMMITMENTS
        • Providing exclusivity
        • Pursuing your partner RELENTLESSLY
• How does a porn/sex addict in recovery actually provide restitution following betrayal?
  • Creatively and Proactively, he does the following—
    • Inquire: what have I stolen from you? Her narrative, NOT YOURS!
    • Communicate: Sincere, complete apologies, including commitments for long-term change and consistent follow-through. Provide ONGOING empathy where needed.
    • Provide potential ideas for restitution: come up with a list, show how YOU (not her) are going to sacrifice to make these changes.
    • Collaborate with her: Share your ideas, humbly ask for feedback, and make consistent ongoing change as necessary.

In Episode 229, Mark & Steve answer some very TOUGH questions asked by a partner seeking to heal from the betrayal trauma caused by her porn/sex addicted partner. Here's what she sent in to PBSE:

Do I just have to accept he can never be faithful? That an addict will always be an addict so he will always have to fight the want of others? There will always be temptation but recovery means being able to face it and not let it overpower? I don't want that. I don't want urges and triggers just fought off. I want them gone. If they will always exist, the addiction will always exist that says to me he will always have a want for others, a want for more. It says he can never be truly faithful. That I cannot be his only desire. I cannot be enough for him. So in staying, I just have to accept that?

First, we have SO MUCH EMPATHY FOR THIS PARTNER!!! We always ask, “What is under these heart-felt expressions; this pain? What are betrayed partners asking for at the deepest levels?

• What they were promised in the beginning!
  • To be desired, pursued, exclusive, CHOSEN!
  • To KNOW who THEY are choosing–full honesty and transparency
  • To be SAFE and not endlessly have to be hyper-vigilant, on-guard, watching to see what he’s watching, keeping track of him . . .
  • To NOT be in a COMPETITION for his attention, affection, desires, loyalty, faithfulness, etc.
• Does a Partner simply have to accept that he will always be one-step-away from betraying her again???
  • What is “temptation” and living in the real world? What is NORMALCY?
  • W/hat is “Addiction” and how does it “rewire the brain”?
  • Can an addiction brain be truly “rewired” to a healthy, faithful state? What does that mean? How long does it take?
• What is “real recovery”?
  • Treating the symptoms–”getting sober”
  • Exploring and addressing the “underlying core issues”
  • Maturing, evolving and learning HOW to have a healthy relationship and a healthy life!
  • LEARNING the lessons that the addiction showed up to TEACH so you can move forward in healthy living!
• How do you reconcile “He can ONLY be sober today” with never having hope of anything changing—always having to be hyper-vigilant and wait for the “shoe to drop”? All ANY of us have any control over is ME and TODAY! There are NO guarantees. We know where this desire comes from, but it is not living life on life’s terms.
• So, where do you go from here?
  • Investing in YOURSELF and YOUR POWER while he is doing the same thing. And then coming together to COLLABORATE on this!
  • But WHAT ABOUT . . . . .???!!!

Learn more about Mark and Steve's revolutionary online porn/sexual addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing program at—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at: Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at: Reclaim Counseling Services

In Episode 228, Mark & Steve get SUPER passionate talking to the partners of porn/sex addicts! Over the past several weeks, PBSE has received a number of heart-wrenching submissions by listeners who are partners falling and drowning in the overwhelming intensity of betrayal trauma and being in a relationship with a porn/sex addict.

Unfortunately, in all of these submissions, the porn/sex addicted partner is choosing to come at the whole issue with one or more of the following—denial, gaslighting, minimizing, blaming, secrecy, trickle-truths, etc. Mark & Steve get raw and real in addressing these CRAZY HARD situations—

- Let’s talk about all the various ways that this whole "porn/sex addiction betrayal" can blindside a partner and UNRAVEL into FAR more than the betrayed partner was ready for or prepared to take on. WHY does this quickly place betrayed partners into a state of feeling like they're hopelessly falling and drowning?!

- HOW can betrayed partners TAKE BACK THEIR POWER?!

- What does deciding to CHOOSE or not to choose the relationship going forward actually and realistically look like for a betrayed partner?

Learn more about Mark and Steve's revolutionary online porn/sexual addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing program at—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at: Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at: Reclaim Counseling Services